What caught my eye this week.
I began drafting today’s post on Wednesday, observing that while 2024 had begun with a splutter for most markets after the almighty Santa Rally, Bitcoin was still going strong.
How come?
Just like the others, Bitcoin has benefited from the emerging consensus that central banks will begin to cut interest rates this year. Perhaps markedly so.
Any asset that pays no income will surely benefit when the competition from cash recedes.
But there’s been at least three other narratives driving the Bitcoin rally:
- A widely-held conviction that the SEC in the US is about to approve at least one Bitcoin ETF
- The upcoming ‘halving event’ in April, which will halve the rate of release of new Bitcoins to miners
- The fact that the latest cypto winter didn’t kill Bitcoin, despite all those bankruptcies and felonies. This must have made it stronger
It all helped Bitcoin’s price advance around 150% in 2023 – albeit after an epic crash the year before.
Things that go bump in the price
Yet no sooner had I hit ‘Save’ on my draft than this happened:
Yes, the Bitcoin price fell more than 10% in about ten minutes.
So much for the asset class growing up!
As I write, the cause of Bitcoin’s latest moment of madness appeared to be the opinion of a sole analyst.
Marcus Thielen of crypto platform Matrixport was quoted by The Block as saying:
“SEC Chair Gensler is not embracing crypto in the U.S., and it might even be a very long shot to expect that he would vote to approve bitcoin spot ETFs.
“This might be fulfilled by Q2 2024, but we expect the SEC to reject all proposals in January.”
Now, I can’t imagine why the SEC might be leery of green-lighting a retail-friendly ETF for an asset that dives 10% on the opinion of a single analyst in about the time it takes to Google it.
It’s not the message so much as the market that’s the problem here.
Everyone’s not a winner
Bitcoin remains a thinly-traded and illiquid asset.
A relatively small number of so-called ‘whales’ own a huge proportion – around 40% – of the outstanding stock. (Or at least all the stock that’s available that hasn’t been lost to Welsh landfill and the like.)
Indeed it’s not clear to me what diehard HODL-ers like Michael Saylor of MicroStrategy see as the endgame for their remorseless Bitcoin accumulation.
I obviously understand that scarcity can push up the price of a desired commodity.
But when that commodity’s only proven use case so far is as a (hugely volatile) store of value, surely that’s undermined if only a hundred or so entities control so much of the supply?
How will all the other stuff Saylor talks about with Bitcoin happen if it gets so closely-held that it becomes very hard to actually buy – and potentially use – it?
I suppose that the new financial order they predict (note: I don’t) could run with only tiny or even notional bits of Bitcoin changing hands. Maybe these massive holders will then act as de facto central banks?
Maybe, but I don’t remember reading about that in Satoshi’s white paper.
A stake in one future
Still, I continue to believe that brave – or crypto-enamoured – private investors can justify holding up to a few percent in Bitcoin or Bitcoin proxies such as MicroStrategy or the Bitcoin miner Riot Platforms.
For what it’s worth I do – despite some ongoing befuddlement.
Bitcoin and blockchain are among the most intriguing innovations of our time. But one has to acknowledge the vast range of potential outcomes, from Bitcoin going to zero, right up to it backing fiat currencies or being the preferred currency of powerful AI agents in a William Gibson-esque dystopia.
Hence why I’ve argued a small allocation that’s left to boom or bust is a practical response.
The trend is your friend
Of course this strategic inactivity might be severely tested if Bitcoin actually ten-bagged in a year.
And we can well imagine that a Bitcoin ETF could be very bullish for the Bitcoin price. It would make it easier for individuals and institutions to buy a small stake of the diminishing pool of free-floating Bitcoins.
As I believe a higher Bitcoin price is a self-fulfilling prophecy when it comes to the future price of Bitcoin, so higher prices should gradually de-risk the asset class by itself. At least for a time.
But others think differently, of course.
Some even say ETF approval would be the death knell for Bitcoin, because it would curb those exotic use cases.
Others just ridicule what they see as an unusually hard-to-kill tulip-mania.
We’ll have to wait and see.
Incidentally my comments here relate only to Bitcoin. I have no conviction about the other cryptocurrencies.
It is not that I’m certain they will all fail. If Bitcoin endures and delivers anything like a decent return, then I’d bet in that particular world that a few of the other thousands of cryptos will do very well, too.
It’s more that in any outcome where any other particular crypto currency succeeds, I think Bitcoin will be at least okay – as digital gold, if nothing else – even if it’s not the standout performer.
In contrast, in all eventualities it seems obvious that the majority of Bitcoin’s thousands of rivals will amount to nothing, even if a dozen or so do thrive. There’s just so many out there.
Hence Bitcoin seems the median risk bet.
Putting 1-5% into a cryptocurrency is plenty enough risk already. So I’ll do whatever I can to reduce the uncertainty!
Have a great weekend.
From Monevator
The Slow and Steady passive portfolio update: Q4 2023 – Monevator
Which investment platform does Finumus use and why? – Monevator
From the archive-ator: Three steps to making new year resolutions work – Monevator
News
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UK CEO pay already exceeds average worker’s salary for the year – CNBC
House prices rise again, but Halifax forecasts 4% drop in 2024 – Guardian
Rail fares to rise in England by 4.9% – Which
Higher interest rates have boosted UK household income by £16bn – Resolution Foundation
Airbnb, eBay, Vinted, and other side-hustle apps will share more data with HMRC – BBC
Luxury Battersea Power Station penthouse goes on sale for £31m – This Is Money
Oops! Natwest boss says it’s ‘not that difficult’ to buy a house – Sky News
UK homeowners face £19bn rise in mortgage costs as fixed-rate deals expire – Guardian
Products and services
Sub-4% deal leads HSBC’s cheaper mortgage rate offers… – This Is Money
…with fellow giant Natwest quick to join the party – Mortgage Solutions
How far will UK mortgage rates fall? [Search result] – FT
Top credit cards for 2024 – Be Clever With Your Cash
Get between £100 and £1,500 cashback when you open an ISA with Interactive Investor before 31 Jan. New customers only. Minimum £2,000 deposit. Terms apply. Capital at risk. – Interactive Investor
Are the perks offered by life insurers worth it? – Which
EV breakdowns due to low battery levels the lowest on record, says AA – This Is Money
Registration is now open to claim 15 hours of free childcare a week – Which
Open an account with low-cost platform InvestEngine via our link and get up to £50 when you invest at least £100 (T&Cs apply. Capital at risk) – InvestEngine
Why home insurers say you must never put up a ‘Beware of the Dog’ sign – This Is Money
Vintage champagne: market bubbles may have popped [Search result] – FT
Remote homes for sale in Great Britain, in pictures – Guardian
Comment and opinion
Learning to like beer in a world of champagne propaganda – Money With Katie
Investing lessons recapped – Humble Dollar
How to design a UK wealth fund is baffling both Labour and Tories [Search result] – FT
What comes after a good year in the stock market – A.W.O.C.S.
UK homeowners fear 2024 mortgage time bomb [Bit late for that?] – Guardian
Will HMRC really come after you for selling your old clothes? – This Is Money
Stock market history illuminated: 2023 edition – Albert Bridge Capital
Health is wealth mini-special
Make them good years – Humble Dollar
Your money or your life – Of Dollars and Data
Naughty corner: Active antics
A deep dive into investing risk – Alpha Architect
Investing in investment firms [Podcast] – Invest Like The Best
Veteran UK small-cap stock picker reviews his 2023 returns… – Maynard Paton
…and an annual review from an investment trust fancier – IT Investor
Why growth, why now? [Promotional but interesting] – Baillie Gifford
The decline and fall of US Steel – Construction Physics [h/t Abnormal Returns]
Kindle book bargains
What They Don’t Teach You About Money by Claer Barrett – £1.99 on Kindle
Kleptopia: How Dirty Money is Conquering the World by Tom Burgis – £0.99 on Kindle
Fooled by Randomness by Nassim Taleb – £1.99 on Kindle
Make Your Bed by William McRaven – £0.99 on Kindle
Environmental factors
Will hotter heat pumps win over homeowners? – BBC
UK turns to floating turbines to tap ‘remarkable’ wind speeds [Search result] – FT
Deforestation effect of UK consumption unsustainable, say MPs – Guardian
Beaver ponds may exacerbate warming in the arctic – Guardian
Robot overlord roundup
Young people turning to AI therapist bots – BBC
New York Times sues OpenAI and Microsoft – Semafor
Why everyone needs to care which way AI research goes – Our World In Data
Bollocks to Brexit mini-special
Brexit has completely failed the UK, say a clear majority of Britons – Guardian
New UK border checks are ‘disaster waiting to happen’ warns flower industry [Search result] – FT
Off our beat
Manchester’s skyscrapers: towers of homebuilding ambition or ‘high-rise mania’? [Search result] – FT
Active versus passive learning – Morgan Housel
“I own the world’s oldest living cat” – Guardian
Roche designs antibiotic to fight deadly A. baumannii infections – Fierce Biotech
New Saltburn trend shows ‘rich people missed entire point’ of the film – Joe
Tim Spector and the cult of Zoe [no paywall] – FT
13-year old hailed as the first person to ever ‘beat’ Tetris – Guardian
Nobody has Seasonal Affective Disorder – Raptitude
2023: The year in cheer – Reasons to be Cheerful
And finally…
“Oh how blessed the young men are who have to struggle for a foundation and a beginning in life. I shall never cease to be grateful for the three and a half years of apprenticeship and the difficulties to be overcome, all the way along.”
– John D. Rockefeller, Titan
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You might have thought that those at the SEC responsible for approving ETFs would realise that bitcoin was bunkum and likely to be harmful to gullible investors. But that has not stopped them approving nonsense in the past. One episode I can think of is with inverse VIX ETFs, which if anything have more logic to them than carbon intensive tulipesque bitcoins. Inverse VIX ETFs made phenomenal returns over a multi-year period which experienced unusually low volatility. Then they all went bust on a single day. The design of inverse VIX ETFs means that this result was inevitable at some point, so you would have thought the SEC would not allow such madness, but they did and still do.
I don’t buy the argument that it is worth investing a small amount into bitcoin just in case it might be a multi-bagger. That same argument can be made for a whole range of daft ideas, so why single out bitcoin?
If I was interested in low likelihood/high return speculative investment I would become an angel investor, or research micro caps. That would strike me as for more productive and satisfying than speculating on the madness of crowds. It is quite a lot more work though, so not for me.
Happy new year by the way!
Somebody’s clock is wrong.
It’s 10.17 as I am reading Naeclue’s comment, yet it has a submission time of 11.07.
Why bother allocating 1 or 5 percent of one’s wealth into a scheme that you define as “bonkers”. Why not invest it into something alternatively bonkers if that’s your fancy? What is so special about Bitcrap?
@Naeclue — That’s interesting re: the inverse VIX ETFs, I don’t recall them all going bust in a single day. Will go Google, sounds like quite a story! 🙂
The outstanding stock of Bitcoin today is valued at $856 billion, and it has survived numerous booms and busts. Does this persistence not set it apart from various other daft ideas?
Quantity has a quality all of its own, as Stalin said 😉
You’ve been making the case that Bitcoin is worthless for many years now. Here it is, valued by others at $856 bn. Of course it could yet go to zero, I say that in my piece. I think I can see all sides; many years ago now I re-evaluated my totally sceptical stance re: Bitcoin to do so.
Would anything change your mind? If we were here in 20 years would you still be saying it’s worthless? Genuine question, not a dig. 🙂
@Chesterdog — Yes, the clock is always wrong. It’s sort of become a tradition around Monevator haha. Perhaps I should go and change it but I sort of like it for some reason.
@Hak — I meant the price action and the general ‘ecosystem’ around Bitcoin is bonkers. The same was true of Gamestop stock, say, in early 2021. That was bonkers as I said at the time but I don’t think selling games is bonkers, or equities are bonkers. 🙂
Incidentally I think the mathematics/mechanics of Bitcoin is quite beautiful and not bonkers (apart from the energy cost, perhaps, but I’ve become reconciled to that for various reasons).
It’s really the price that drives people nuts. If it cost $1 and the pseudo ‘market cap’ was $21 million nobody would get worked up about it.
Of course the price is also what makes it exciting etc. So it cuts both ways.
Would anything change my mind about bitcoin? A use case that was not based on fantasies might help, but even then I would probably not invest. I don’t like investments based solely on bigger fool theory and if I did I would choose gold over any type of crypto-babble. You can at least make pretty trinkets from gold and people have always been attracted to trinkets.
Inverse VIX ETF crash: https://www.fool.com/investing/2018/02/06/the-simple-math-behind-the-inverse-volatility-etf.aspx
It does look as though some of them may have survived and/or modified behaviours, so I think I may be wrong in saying they all went bust.
Ps, I appreciate what you say about the aesthetic quality of the technology. It is quite smart. Again though lots of other technologies are as well. I think my marine diesel engine is amazing technology. Old but still fascinating. Then there is the James Webb telescope. Literally out of this world!
I hate bitcoin and wish it would crash to zero so all the fools obsessed by it would be taught a lesson. I also can’t help but find it interesting and exciting. The story is not over yet and I look forward to seeing it play out.. mostly on the sidelines.
Agreed with your stance @TI, crypto is a taxable entity per HMRC guidelines after all, and the direction of travel towards further badly needed regulation is positive. Bitcoin ETF approval is a massive step for the US gov to make I feel given its perceived threat to the dollar, but may be a non event for the price in the short term. Longer term it should benefit from access for tax free wrappers, institutions and a wider audience wary of centralised exchanges and wallet storage.
For me it looks to be a new asset vector that is distinct enough from anything else to make it useful, a reserve with potential upside but at the price of accompanying volatility.
Yes. I can see Case using a Trezor or Nano Ledger to pay for drinks at the Chatsu in Ninsei of Chiba City.
Crypto shenanigans are one part a grotesque Gibson-esque/PKD nightmare and, for PoW protocols like BTC, another part unmitigated environmental disaster.
When @TI visited this topic in Feb 2021 @Tedious Pseudonym nicely captured the extent of the insanity here:
“Visa will process around 250 _billion_ transactions this year. Bitcoin will handle about 100 _million_. That’s 2,500x less transactions, for 600 times greater energy usage (and more realistically 2,000 or more times, as Visa’s energy includes all sort of non transaction processing uses)”.
I put my cards on the table here: I have a burning hatred of the Libertarian crypto ‘project’, BTC definitely included.
I am with Munger (crypto’s “disgusting and an affront to civilization”) China (banned all crypto mining) and Sci-fi author Charlie Stross (who memorably penned “I want Bitcoin to die in a fire” way back in 2013).
However, trying not to be completely blinded by my prejudices about this topic, and bearing in mind also here Soros’ wise words that a bubble is just name which you give to a price increase that you’re not participating in; is there money still to be made in crypto – whether in BTC, or in one or more of the 10k-20k listed ‘Altcoins’ out there, or in a yet to be invented token?
Maybe. Maybe not.
BTC is non-trivial in absolute terms, but not in the global pool of tradable assets and wealth.
The ‘market cap’ is meaningless, as:
– it has far lower comparative liquidity to public exchange traded large cap shares;
– at least 3.7mn BTC are ‘lost’ due to inaccessible private keys;
– a further 1 mn+ BTC have been nicked in cyber heists and are being tracked over the Blockchain to prevent the culprits cashing out for fiat; and,
– Satoshi’s 750k-1.1 mn strong BTC hoard is unlikely to ever be liquidated.
Put that lot together, and I’d guess (pulling a reasonable sounding number from the air here) that you could mark down the $800 bn headline BTC cap figure to a few hundred bn.
That’s tiny compared to global wealth in the vaguely $400 tn+ range.
So that suggests potentially more room to bubble up bigly in the next hype halving cycle.
But, and here’s the kicker, as I mentioned in recent comments on a different thread; the exponential chart from 2009/10 until now fairly unambiguously shows that the geometric magnitude of each price pop is significantly reducing with each passing wave/cycle.
In the very beginning, ‘prices’ went up literally 10,000s times from fractions (0.1) of a cent to mine (at a difficulty level of 1, with just ~7 mega hashes per second back in 2009) up to thirty odd bucks (the 2011 peak).
But the next trough (2 bucks, also in 2011) to peak (about a grand, at the end of 2013) was only 500x, and the next one after that (2015-17) was just 115x ($170 to $19,500).
By the time that we get to the last wave (2018-21) it’s down to a 23x increase in price from trough to peak ($3k to $68k).
Therefore, it’s a fairly clear pattern of ever smaller rises in % terms.
If we don’t now do over 6x from the $15k bottom in 2022 with this (2024) halving then, in inflation adjusted terms, BTC will be below its last peak.
A peak to peak real terms fall has yet to happen in BTC’s history and, from a purely charting perspective, it would mean that we’d gone from accumulation, markup, distribution, and markdown cycles within a globally rising price trend to such cycles instead occurring within a consolidating price range.
This would be inconsistent with the Stock to Flow model of BTC maximalist ‘Plan B’, which predicts an ambitious $288k price per ‘coin’ target in 2024 and a completely ludicrous (and impossible) $235 bn per BTC in 2045.
However, it would be wholly consistent with the Future Supply Model (“A Non-Divergent, Long-term, Residual Supply-driven Bitcoin Forecast”) of Stephen Perrenod, which sees the BTC price developing broadly as follows:
“Using the best fit parameters, the model converges toward an asymptotic value for market cap of $1.63 trillion (in 2020 dollars) and an asymptotic price of $77,500. However, these values have high uncertainty due to the limited price history and high volatility of Bitcoin”.
Within such ‘steady state’ type models as Future Supply prices can still fluctuate a lot, however (from a couple of time over to several times below equilibrium price).
@TLI nicely done – have a +1 from me purely for the William Gibson references
Oh gawd – not bitcoin again please ( I beg you).
The oldest cat story is lovely 🙂 I’ve had two female cats make it to 18 but that seems to be the point where multiple things go wrong and they die. Coincidentally one of those was a tortie.
It is interesting to note that many stocks can move 5 – 10% plus within the space of a few minutes based on earnings reports, mergers/ takeovers, or other corporate news/ actions etc. However the basic point that I would agree with is that the volatility of Bitcoin is much higher than most stocks, let alone stock indices.
I have also found from experience, in my opinion only, that having a small toehold position in these types of massively asymmetric bets has been a useful thing to do, because I have often seen stocks or other assets where I could not see any fundamental value, go on to produce incredible returns, so now I force myself to take a tiny position with a view to adding later if it pans out, rather than missing the whole thing. But that is just me – everybody has to do what they are comfortable with. Also, with these types of assets, you may have to be quite nimble to get in and out of them (ie trade rather than invest), which is not everybody’s cup of tea.
For example, some people might have 95% of their investable assets in stocks, funds, bonds etc – ie traditional stable (somewhat!) financial instruments and perhaps 5% in cash looking for the outsized opportunities. So they are unlikely to do any lasting damage to their portfolio, assuming they do not use leverage and have a clearly defined downside, but can participate if there are any big moves.
Again, this is not financial advice and I am not trying to convince anyone of the merits of buying bitcoin or any other speculative asset as I am probably overall more against them than for them. I also have more of a bias towards Gold and Silver as at least there is some history and use for these metals. Plus Gold is of course, used as a reserve asset by central banks, which have been accumulating extensively over many years.
Please give an example of something that is intriguing or innovative about blockchain or Bitcoin. The tech has been around for a long time now and I have yet to see a good example of how they can make anything better. Bitcoin, I hate because of the massive unnecessary pollution. Blockchain, meh, if it was that great it would be widely used.
I see Bitcoin as a brand as much as a technology/asset/etc now. Coca Cola make sugary water with limited utility and a fairly sizeable carbon footprint – and yet, much of its value is down to the brand rather than it’s manufacturing and distribution assets. Bitcoin may turn out to be similar – limited utility, but still perceived to have value. Perhaps digital gold is right.
Bitcoin also owes me nothing. I cashed out a third of my tiny holding a couple of weeks back, and it more than covered my initial investment.
@indyinv3.0 — Hi! You write:
It’s true of course that stocks can react to earnings reports or news in that way.
The point here though is that this was just the opinion of one analyst. And it happened in ten minutes. And it was totally contrary to the momentum in the price at the time.
You do certainly see prices of stocks move with buy reports (Apple has suffered from two downgrades this week for example) but it’s pretty rare to see it translated into an immediate price drop like this. And even that, it happens at least in part because legions of people follow these bank analysts and make concrete buying and selling decisions based on them.
I don’t really think the Maxtrixport guy is so influential, no offence to him. Rather I think the volume is relatively tiny, to the extent that literally a few dozen people reading the article and selling tiny amounts of Bitcoin is enough to send the price sinkling in ten minutes.
@Sarah — I agree it was so sweet, especially how she actually took her home expecting her to die within six months. I am not sure I could do that, admirable though I find it.
Oldest cat I’ve ever been associated with was about 13 years. Apparently the oldest ever got towards 30! Pretty shocking.
@Sarah #11: the Guardian article’s incredible. 28! 🙂 Parents have owned (really cared for, as no one owns a cat) two Mollys and a Tom over the decades, and, as you say, 17-20 years seems to be the limit for most cats.
@Marco #12: there really aren’t any genuine, unique and meaningful innovations in BTC or Blockchain. Almost definitionally centralised applications and platforms under single control will be cheaper, faster and more reliable than some network of dispersed and independent operators who have to reach consensus before an operation can take place over the network.
> Bitcoin has benefited from the emerging consensus that central banks will begin to cut interest rates this year
As usual, Bitcoin has likely benefited from the fact that the price is mostly completely manipulated and not market-driven. (There are even academic peer-reviewed publications documenting the manipulations. Among others, Bitfinex / Tether are notorious for this.) And as documented even in court proceedings and SEC actions throughout the last year, pretty much every single player in the cryptocurrency space is criminal to varying degrees.
Beauty is in the eye of the beholder, but I don’t find the technology “beautiful” – it is essentially a slow distributed database whose sole reason of existence is to solve a problem that wouldn’t exist without it in the first place (Sybil attack on a currency). The one beautiful part about the linked Satoshi paper, section 11. very nicely explains why in the absence of the ability for a user to determine who actually does the mining on the blockchain (or in the notation of the paper, the inability to know even the magnitude of the parameter q), a) transactions will always be slow and low throughput, b) it is basically impossible to know how much I can trust the blockchain. It also explains why it is not an “outside bet” but mathematically impossible ever to become a mainstream payment platform (ignoring all the other reasons, and yes one could invent around this limitation but people haven’t in 10+ years and anyway it wouldn’t have anything to do with current cryptocurrencies).
I work in an S&P 500 technology company but have yet to see anyone actually come up with a (non-criminal) use case for blockchains (not counting the “git” source control system, which shares some ideas).
I also find the comparison with the tulip-mania a bit unfair: Having read the chapter on the original tulip mania in Edward Chancellor’s “Devil Take the Hindmost”, it sounded positively rational compared to cryptocurrencies. 🙂
Sorry if this sounds a bit like a rant, or if it is not clear what I really think about cryptocurrencies. 🙂
And a belated Happy New Year!
In case anyone missed it, an interesting article by John Kay on pensions:
https://www.johnkay.com/2023/12/20/the-biggest-avoidable-policy-disaster-in-british-politics/
What a superb article @Eddie (#18). The quotes from both Hayek and Shaw are priceless truths. I’d been thinking of the obstacles to prediction just as your link and comment arrived.
I have no fundamental objection to the concept of crypto – it seems no more crazy to me than valuing gold or cash – but I do strongly object to bitcoin’s obscene use of energy. A single bitcoin transaction has about the same carbon footprint as a flight to New York. As TLI says, about a million times worse than VISA per transaction. I have spent my career advancing renewable energy technology, and I am really offended by this energy waste when the world needs so desperately to cut energy use and low-carbon energy sources are limited and being built too slowly.
@TI how to do reconcile yourself to the energy use of bitcoin?
Not only is the energy cost bad now, but it will get worse. The energy per transaction for bitcoin is rising exponentially (by design – the halving thing). Surely at some point bitcoin must run out of road due to this, when the cost to process a transaction dwarfs the value of the money being transacted? I guess synthetic ETFs could work around this, by not actually trading any bitcoin, just tracking it’s value. Reminds me of the Rai stone ‘coins’ of Yap – amusingly when one was lost at sea the islanders all agreed that since everyone knew where it was and no-one could take it away, it was still good as money. https://www.npr.org/sections/money/2011/02/15/131934618/the-island-of-stone-money
And another negative to bitcoin – it generates huge amounts of e-waste (30,000 tonnes/year, about 0.1% of all e-waste globally), as miners have to constantly upgrade their hardware to remain competitive on energy use.
If I do ever add any crypto to my portfolio it will certainly be a low-energy coin, e.g. Ether, which now uses proof-of-stake instead of proof-of-work like Bitcoin.
Good FT article about floating wind. That’s a technology with vast potential if we can get the cost down, as there is a whole lot of very windy sea out there and nobody will object to floating turbines ruining their view. I’m optimistic on the cost reductions as we’ve achieved >10x reductions with fixed foundation wind.
Eddie @19: Thank you for this link. Such a brilliant exposition. My eureka moment came with this excerpt: “if I only live five more years – which is less than my expectation – it really doesn’t matter what I invest in. If I live for twenty-five, which is at the upper end of realistic expectation, then expected return is much more important than short-term volatility.”
Not touching Bitcoin…what was that thing about not investing in something you don’t understand?
What I am curious about is trying to remember which assets did well last time we had reasonable bond yields in a period not influenced by globalisation ( ie China).
TI,
I don’t think many people would disagree with the fact that Bitcoin is more volatile than stocks, especially in a “single point volatility” sense but also in a standard annualized volatility measure. I just noticed that stocks do have these discontinuous jumps also, as well as other financial instruments (flash crashes etc, oil price going negative etc). But not to the same degree usually and much less often.
As for real-world uses of Blockchain for normal, non – criminal(!) uses, there are plenty :
https://www.ft.com/content/3717fe36-1536-43ef-ace4-b63e5efe778e
https://www.forbes.com/sites/ninabambysheva/2023/02/07/forbes-blockchain-50-2023/
I believe XRP (Ripple) is also widely used by financial institution for cross – border payments etc
But the use of blockchains does not seem to have taken off (yet) to gain some sort of critical mass to remake the financial industry or any other industry. I heard someone refer to crypto/ blockchain as a “permanent start-up”!
I think from my perspective, if, at some point, all financial transactions are conducted over some type of blockchain, then the potential is enormous – imagine if all bond, stock, commodities, futures, FX etc trades were all conducted over blockchains. It could be a cheaper, faster and more direct way of trading instead of the usual T + 2 etc settlement days. It could be almost immediate, which would lead to massive gains in efficiency in productivity. Whether it happens or not is still not certain of course.
The price of Bitcoin from my reading is heavily pushed up by Tether, which is (very likely) not all backed by currency according to many investigators.
I wouldn’t trust the cost of Bitcoin until Tether collapses and we see the falout from that.
Even this most recent Bitcoin bullrun can be linked to tether minting tons of new cryptocurrency, but who’s buying them?
https://blog.dshr.org/2024/01/good-news-for-tether.html
The thing I’ve always wondered about Bitcoin is, if I actually had one, would some mug really exchange me $40,000 in cash for it? Has that ever actually happened? Or is it all just digital trading wishful thinking?
BTC is a trade not an investment. Same for the other cryptos.
It’s not comparable to putting money into gold for jewellery, into art or into watches. They all have long established aesthetic value. A BTC address or transaction ledger entry has no such appeal.
Without economic cash flows like shares, bonds and real estate it can never have fundamental (intrinsic) value. It’s just a speculative, unproductive, extrinsically valued ‘thing’ (or perhaps a ‘nothing’).
Of course, trades in nonsense can be profitable and, paradoxically, can still make sense. As Soros also reputably said, “when I see a bubble forming, I rush in with both hands”.
Maybe BTC hits $100k or even conceivably $200k this year.
But it’s not going to go up 100x like it did in 2010, when there were only 2.6 mn mined BTC, & the price started at 0.3 cents on the 1st exchange (Bitcoinmarket.com, established 17 Mar 2010, not Mount Gox, which only started in July that year) and ended the year at 30 cents (on Mt Gox); having at one stage crashed in days from 17 cents to 1 cent.
For BTC to do 100x this year, with over 19 mn mined ‘coins’ now, would require it to go from $40k to $4 mn per BTC; and that’s just impossible, even if (hypothetically speaking) the allegations being made about whales, algos and Tether being used to try to manipulate the price were to be found to be true.
There are plenty of other mad (and not so mad) things out there to trade. Take a look at the price of Uranium Yellow Cake, for example, up from $24 per lb in 2020 to $86 at the end of last year.
If you prudently limit exposure to 0.5%-1% of assets, then a 2.5-5x pop in the BTC price to $100k-200k isn’t going to change your life or your portfolio. Staking more wealth than that would be reckless, IMO. So why bother at all?
For reference, the big price action was at the start of BTC’s first decade 2010-20, but most especially in 2010, 2011 and 2013.
Anyone entering into trading / speculation on BTC now have very likely missed the boat. Here are the 1st decade returns and drawdowns:
Year/Return/Drawdown
2010/9,900%/-94%
2011/1,473%/-94%
2012/186%/-85%
2013/5,507%/-83%
2014/-58%/-71%
2015/35%/-78%
2016/125%/-30%
2017/1,331%/-40%
2018/-73%/-73%
2019/95%/-43%
2020/301%/-61%
@all — Wow, who needs the other B- word when we can debate Bitcoin, eh?
It’s interesting to read that I’m a moron / profoundly mistaken here and on Twitter/X from BOTH opposing sides of the camp… 😉
Great discussion anyway, you’ll forgive me for not repeating myself. (Most of my views are in my “1%” Bitcoin linked to in the piece and haven’t substantially changed since then).
I will say / agree that only thing that really concerns me with Bitcoin is indeed the energy cost.
I wouldn’t say I’m reconciled to this, more that I’ve come to see it’s just another potentially pointless thing that humans spend loads of energy on where the wastefulness is probably in the eye of the beholder.
For instance, I came through Paddington Station today with hundreds of drunken football fans singing about “the reds” (not sure which team) and generally making life unpleasant. Given I never go to football matches, could I total the sum amount of energy spent on every football game in the world, all associated merchandise, getting these rowdy guys to and from games, policing, the opportunity cost of a big stadium in Highbury instead of flats, etc etc, and say it’s pointless?
It’s not essential for life etc. Yet plenty of football fans would say it’s the most important thing in the world and who am I to argue?
What was the energy cost of Taylor Swift’s recent tour? What was the energy cost of all the plastic tat dolled out this Christmas — a significant chunk of which appears to be on the hands of my own nieces?
Contrarily, if millions of people ‘enjoy’ Bitcoin existing, their enjoyment amounts to something in that same vein.
Beyond that, a Bitcoin fundamentalist (I’m not one, though I’m perhaps a maximalist…) would say that Proof of Work is the sunk cost of securing a permission-less and secure store of value that’s independent of any state or jurisdiction or whatnot (or act of god!) and that say 1% of global energy is a small price to pay for us achieving this.
I’ve also seen some interesting counterarguments about the energy cost of the banking network, and the energy cost of mining and distributing gold.
I’d argue to it’s reasonable to say you can’t just look at the number of Visa transactions per second etc re: energy. You have to look at all the staff who work for Visa, their partner companies etc, how much energy it costs to feed them, heat their homes etc.
In theory Bitcoin is pure in the sense that the mining/transaction energy is *it*.
I’m not going to die on this hill — as I say it does trouble me — but I think it’s more complicated than it first appears.
I mean, even beyond that we can look the energy supposedly being directed to Bitcoin and raise an eyebrow. It seems to me kind of implausible that it was rather ‘diverted’, anyway, I’ve not heard any energy suppliers talk seriously about this (local sub stations another matter) despite it supposedly using as much energy as Holland or whatnot — and that was years ago. Granted it’d be pretty diffuse but maybe that’s actually a defence…
On top of that you have interesting work being done to say load balance hydro-electric dams and other renewables by mining when ‘real’ world demand is low, people trying to use waste ‘flared’ fossil fuel energy for crypto mining etc, or the argument that a country rich in abundant cheap renewables but rather remote can effectively export energy by mining and exporting Bitcoins instead of energy or ‘stuff’…
I’m sure there’s tons of spin in all these stories and that a big chunk of Bitcoin mining is straight-up lamentable dirty power in rotten states. But against that I do think some of this stuff is worth looking into.
TLDR: It’s not great, no, but it probably is complicated…
I’m finding it difficult to buy even modest amounts of Bitcoin. My main bank (First Direct) has limits “£2,500 for a single payment and a total payment limit of £10,000 in any rolling 30-day period. Debit cards – £2,500 for a single card payment and a total card payment limit of £10,000 in any rolling 30-day period”; and my other bank Chase won’t permit them at all!
@TLI 27
The fact that the really great returns are behind us is most likely true. Although it will be interesting to see how it plays out this cycle given the confluence of factors supporting the rally – lower interest rates, increase in global liquidity, spot etf and I believe the amount of “free float” bitcoin out there has been decreasing quite substantially over the last few years as the HODLers do not sell and become more steadfast in their desire to HODL.
However, alot like Gold and Silver, one of the more interesting ways to play Bitcoin is through the miners or bitcoin proxies like Argo Blockchain etc. These, again like the Gold miners are leveraged to the Gold price, tend to be leveraged to the price of Bitcoin.
It may be surprising but I personally have never bought any cryptocurrency directly but have preferred to play the rallies in crypto through listed stocks in the UK. There are two benefits to this – one, you can put them in an ISA and so any gains are tax free, and two, the bitcoin/ crypto proxies offer leverage to the Bitcoin price. So, they are like cheap, infinite options on the bitcoin price. But your downside is protected as you can only lose how much you put in to the stock, and your upside is potentially quite high.
For example, in the last cycle, Bitcoin went from a low of about $3000 to a high of close t0 $70,000, which is about a 23x. Argo blockchain, which is I believe, the only Bitcoin miner listed in the UK, went from a low of 2.6p to a high of about 350p, which is about a 135x. So Argo performed about 6x better than Bitcoin itself.
Of course, this is assuming you buy the bottom and sell the top which is highly unlikely but it does show that there is sometimes a leverage effect to buying bitcoin/ crypto proxies/ miners.
As I say, it is very much similar to buying gold/ silver miners as they are also leveraged to the price of gold/ Silver, especially the smaller, more speculative explorers etc. Although they are, of course, very speculative and you may have to be nimble in getting in and out as they can rise and fall quite quickly.
@TI 28
I think you presented the article in a fair, even-handed way as usual and am surprised that you got so much negativity back!
All excellent points @Indyinv 3.0.
The operating leverage potential upside gain of listed miners (Marathon, RIOT, Argo etc), exchanges (COIN) and funds (KR1) probably compensates for some degree of idiosyncratic company risk.
Personally (collective investment vehicles structured as shares aside) I avoid/dislike investing in individual stocks because of the returns skew – i.e. most individual shares underperform the market portfolio and a shockingly large minority fail to generate returns exceeding their cost of capital and/or the returns in Treasury Bills (per Bessembinder et al).
But with crypto, if one were to speculate sensibly, then one would want to keep the bankroll at risk quite small (to try to minimise loss regret), and also to sin a little with market timing in order to try and put money in, if at all possible, during the latter part of the markdown phase of the episodic drawdowns (i.e. not now).
A small bankroll at risk favours trying to maximise leverage via exposure by proxy to the tokens using miners or funds.
Otherwise, if the outturn is positive, then the gain % to the overall portfolio will be too small to bother with at a realistic gain multiple (i.e. 5x a 0.5% allocation is still pretty negible).
Whilst I hate crypto, both as an idea in principle, and as an ecosystem of deceit in practice (look no further than SBF in 2022 or at Mt Gox in the beginning); at the end of the day, I want to make some money, and every lawful investment and/or (as here) trade/speculation with some non negible potential for positive expected value deserves a fair & impartial evaluation.
I also hate tobacco and oil companies, but they’re both somewhere in there in my All World trackers’ holdings (I do try though to compensate a bit by not having a car).
But there is probably more company specific risk in crypto than for most other sectors.
For example, when I looked at Argo Blockchain in the last but one crypto winter (2018/19), it looked a fantastic opportunity, albeit unproven.
Then, in the next boom phase, along came Boatman Capital (Aug 2021) with a report alleging that the then new Texas mining site was overvalued 100 fold, and raising many questions.
Boatman could have been barking up the wrong tree and talking nonsense, but it was enough to put me off.
KR1 I think is more interesting as a speculative proposition in that they eschewed mining for PoW tokens and instead have successfully unwritten the launch of many new Altcoins by third parties, perhaps most notably backing the issue of TIA tokens (native digital token of the Celestia network); for which KR1 received 7.5 mn TIA for just $75k overall, and which traded at one stage for $12.50 apiece (NB: KR1 are locked into their TIA holdings until 2026, and it makes up ~40% of their NAV).
I think both Wexboy and @Finumus have, or have had, some holdings in KR1.
What puts me off bunging say 0.25%-0.5% of the portfolio into KR1 right now is the general level of bullishness around crypto as we go into the halving.
I’d be much less apprehensive about speculating in KR1 after, say, BTC pops post halving and/or post the ETF decision, perhaps peaking at $50k-$150k and then falling 70%-80% to the $15k-$30k range, taking smaller Altcoins down 80%-95% with it, rather than going into KR1 now.
Even if crypto has no future (and I do hope that it doesn’t) that in itself is rather unlikely IMO to prevent further cycles of boom/crash/boom.
If something happened once before, then it can happen again. If it happened two or more times before, then it probably will happen again.
The good news is that not long after the Bitcoin ETF is released, an inverse Bitcoin ETF will be released.
So we can all put our money where our mouths are and make a killing…right?
@TI. You admire the view from a hill. Dying is for ditches.
@Ad (#32): in investing and speculation the opposite of bad thing is not always a good one.
Whether you end up shorting/inverse a crazy foundation-less bubble or the next paradigm transformation, the results look much the same.
This might just be an interesting diversion from all the bitcoin chatter:
https://retireearlyhomepage.com/howtouse4pctrule.html
@TLI 31,
Yes that’s right – the risk with buying individual stocks of course – is the idiosyncratic company risk. However, I try to mitigate this with a bit of a scattergun approach. So I make sure I diversify across several names, within the amount allocated to crypto proxies. So I might buy KR1, ARGO, NFT Holdings, and a few others up to a defined risk limit. This is not necessarily done with a fundamental analysis in mind. It is more a case of liquidity-driven rallies lift all boats and the smaller, more speculative names the most! But as usual it is done within a strict risk framework with max potential loss determined in advance, and always a small (less than 5%) of total investable assets. And no leverage of course, outside of the leverage the company may provide.
As you say, with a small bankroll you need to up the risk a bit to get any return worth having and this is how I do it.
The quote from Soros is apt – sometimes you can get some outsized trends which make no sense fundamentally but can be ridden to make some decent gains (eg internet stocks in the 1990s). However, fundamentals usually do win out in the end so you have to be aware if you are in a trend that makes no sense and be looking to get out at any signs of it ending – which of course is the hard part!
I am not necessarily recommending this approach, but for me putting a small percentage of total investable assets (with clearly defined downside risk) into these types of moves has worked out reasonably well over time, and when it hasn’t, the defined risk has saved any lasting damage to the portfolio.
@Ad, I view buying Bitcoins as an absurd proposition, but going short is utter insanity.
@TLI “If something happened once before, then it can happen again. If it happened two or more times before, then it probably will happen again.”
Why?
@Naeclue (#38): The useful in context (approximation) answer for present and all practical purposes is that history rhymes, even if it doesn’t repeat (at least over the timescales which we observe).
The literally corrected answer though is that Poincaré recurrence occurs within a finite entropy system, of which our visible universe is one (the entropic limit being the area of the horizon size in Plank length units squared). Here’s how Physics Stack explains it:
“our Universe is approaching the empty de Sitter space – we are already pretty close to it, actually, because the cosmological constant dominates the vacuum energy (68% of it). It has a cosmic horizon (the boundary behind which we can’t see) and the degrees of freedom are formally living on that surface. Via the holographic principle (in a somewhat less tested context), one may claim that this means that de Sitter space has a finite entropy so a finite-dimensional Hilbert space is enough to describe everything that happens in it (including the matter in not-yet-empty mostly de Sitter space, like the present Universe). If that’s so, the Universe we inhabit behaves much like any system with finitely many degrees of freedom, and it has Poincaré recurrences. The Poincaré recurrence time is extremely long, something like exp(10^120) billion years [the unit (seconds, or years) isn’t important] ..because the entropy of the de Sitter horizon is 10^120 Boltzmann’s constant (the cosmological constant is 10^−120 in Planck units or so). After this super long time, approximately, events start to repeat themselves. At least in some sense, it is fair to say that the time is literally periodic”.
@TLI, I would take some convincing that Poincare’s recurrence theorem was of any use in modelling speculative bubbles! How would you work out the cycle time in any case?
I like the history rhyming bit and I am certain we have not seen the last of speculative bubbles, but that doesn’t mean I accept that what bubbled last time will probably bubble again, or even if it does it could be a very long way off. Anyone still holding on to their Tulip bulbs out there waiting for the come back?
@Naeclue: Never say never again 😉 I’d like the ludicrous scheme, and monstrous illusion, that is crypto to just fade away, and for the damage wrought by it to be limited to the treasurer and reputations squandered so far.
Sadly, I fear that the time when it finally disappears for good will be beyond the foreseeable future. BTC alone has been declared dead several hundreds of times already. In the meantime, there’s unfortunately plenty of chances for it to bubble up again. Human stupidity seems to know no limits, or – in any event – is at least highly elastic.
I really feel that the authorities in each jurisdiction should have done their job to protect consumers by banning it at the outset in 2010-11, when there was a chance to limit the harm.
@TLI — I think you’ve made your point, several times, on more than one thread on BTC.
You don’t like Bitcoin, we get it. Plenty of people on this thread, humbly including myself, like to think of ourselves as not entirely and consistently delusional, although of course I for one have made plenty of stupid decisions. Perhaps having some exposure to Bitcoin will prove one of them, but unless you have something new to bring to the conversation at this stage perhaps that’s enough denigration?
Incidentally if/when I write about Bitcoin again, please do feel free to chip in again. Especially if it’s all gone tits up! 🙂
I’m not censoring a viewpoint here. I’m asking you to cool down repetition that’s verging into unhelpful disparagement of what’s clearly now a mainstream point of view on a particular asset class, albeit one you on no level approve of. As I say, we get it.
I’ve decided not to post further on Monevator after this current posting.
I never intended to denigrate or disparage anybody, but I had thought that it was permitted to ‘play the ball rather than the man’. I accept that, to an extent, it is now verging on a mainstream viewpoint to see cryptographic tokens as an asset class. But I don’t think that it is a minority position, less still an extreme one, that they are, in actuality, no such thing.
Taking as one example the approach of Bogleheads (‘BH’) here.
BH promotes the Lars’ (and obviously John C (Jack) Bogle’s) one total stock market and one local government bond market passive fund approach.
However, they also permit discussion of (and have a great many topic threads about) subjects which are incompatible with (if not outright antithetical to) Jack Bogle’s own investment philosophy, including (for examples) the use of ‘factor’ investing, leverage, quantitative market timing models, and actively managed funds.
Even so, under their ‘Unacceptable Topics’ they’ve chosen to draw a line to exclude discussion of crypto tokens, and they set out their policy choice on that as follows (to quote verbatim):
“Greater Fool Investing Strategies
Eventually, one runs out of greater fools. – Burton Malkiel
Discussions of investment strategies based on securities or physical assets that have no underlying value or negative expected long term returns are prohibited.
Examples include: cryptocurrencies; lottery tickets; tulip bulbs; Ponzi, pyramid, and multi-level marketing schemes; affinity frauds; and market manipulation schemes”
Whilst it is of course up to any website to decide for itself what it individually chooses to allow comment wise, I would respectfully suggest that skepticism (even quite trenchant skepticism) towards crypto tokens remains very much within the mainstream of opinion, at least for the time being.
@Time Like Infinity — I’m sorry to read your comment and that you feel that way, and would urge you to reconsider. Your posts have been very welcome on the site over the past few months, included up to a point your posts here on crypto.
My comment was merely reflecting the fact that by the time I chimed in you’d made eight long posts expressing your views on crypto. The final one contained the phrase “ludicrous scheme, and monstrous illusion” which I guess I did find a bit triggering.
Perhaps it’s a quote I’ve missed? (Galbraith?)
Regarding my statement about crypto being mainstream, I offer this comparison. Donald Trump is currently leading the running to represent the GOP as their nomination for President. He is also a man some would say is at the least ‘associated’ with insurrection of the White House and riots in Washington and others would say, consulting their lawyers, rather more culpable than that.
To me the fact he’s a contender to run a country I love and perhaps the world’s most important is beyond the pale. At least half of the ‘establishment’ agrees.
Yet his appeal to a wide swathe of voters is clearly ‘mainstream’.
Similarly, crypto is loathed; at the same time it is ‘valued’ (I agree we can debate that term) in the trillions and we now have mainstream asset managers, led by the world’s largest asset manager Blackrock, offering Bitcoin ETFs.
When the world’s largest asset manager is marketing and running an ETF for an asset class listed on the world’s biggest market, that is ‘mainstream’ enough for definitional purposes for me. 🙂
While I respect the Bogleheads work greatly, as you say I’m not much minded to set my editorial policy based on theirs.
Moderating over 60,000 comments on Monevator has not always been easy, and it’s hard to balance every consideration.
I am sure I sometimes make misjudgements.
However the policy here has always been that of ‘benign dictator’. There are no rules, because among other things I have seen sites destroy their discussion forums in arguing the toss, and others where moderators have thrown in the towel.
Here I delete or otherwise comment however I like, on my whim, for good or ill, and make no bones about it. I accept this isn’t ideal, but I believe at least for this site it’s better than all the alternatives…
I’ve never deleted any of your posts in anger (I believe we agreed to delete one after an email from you to me once for other reasons?) and again, here I went out of my way to stress I was not censoring your view, and invited you to come back and tell me you were right if Bitcoin goes to zero. 🙂
I was simply asking for a bit of a timeout on this subject.
Anyway, no hard feelings if you do post again on this site, which I hope you will.
And all the best and thanks for all your comments over the past few months if you don’t! 🙂