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Trend following: is the trend your friend? 

A thumbnail sketch of how a trend following fund might track a trending asset

What is trend following? How does it work? Should active or even passive investors have a trend following fund in their portfolio? And if so, which one?

So many questions!

In this post I’ll try to answer a few of them.

Wealth warning: This post discusses some fairly advanced investing concepts. If you’re a sensible regular investor then by all means read it and learn more, but don’t take it as a recommendation to do anything except more research if it piques your interest.

Terminology

I will use the terms ‘trend followers’, ‘CTAs’ (Commodity Trading Advisors) and ‘managed futures’ synonymously in this article. They are not, strictly, the same thing. But it’ll do for our purposes. 

Broadly we are talking about funds that trade futures and generally have a ‘trend-following strategy’. That is, the funds buy (are long) things that have gone up, and sell (short) things that have gone down. 

For the avoidance of doubt, in finance speak trend following is not really the same as momentum.

When we say momentum we tend to mean a strategy or factor that is long good performers within an asset class (normally equities) and possibly short the poor performers (within the same asset class). 

How do trend-following funds work?

We are going to look at the Winton UCITS Trend Fund to explain how these things work. Specifically we’re going to dissect its January 2024 factsheet

I’ve chosen this fund because:

  • It’s an exceedingly vanilla trend-following fund, taking its DNA from the veteran fund manager AHL. (David Harding, the proprietor of Winton, was the ‘H’ in AHL.)
  • You can actually buy it (and I own some)

However, like everything on Monevator – and doubly so the more esoteric or active stuff – this is definitely not a recommendation. And anyway, the fund is a pretty underwhelming offering, as I’ll come to in a bit. 

Here’s what it says on the tin:

This is a very generic description. It would apply to pretty much every mainstream trend-following fund. 

Trend-following secret sauce

So what is the fund’s ‘rules-based investment strategy’?

First, the fund will tidy up the asset price data by turning it into (log) returns and then they’ll apply some sort of volatility normalisation to it.

After that’s done, the rules might look something like this.

  • Be long when the asset is trading above its (200, 100, 50, 20)-Day Moving Average (pick one for your rule), and short when below.
  • Be long when the asset is trading above its (200, 100, 50, 20)-Day Moving Average, and short when below, but ignore the last five days.
  • Be long when the asset is trading above its (200, 100, 50, 20)-day Exponentially Weighted Moving (EWMA), and short when below.
  • Don’t use the ‘current price’ to measure above / below-ness. Use a short-term EWMA (1, 2, 5) day figure. 
  • What is the current price anyway? Last, Bid, Ask, Mid? Order Book Weighted mid-price? Ten-minute Moving Average? Of which price? 

Or the fund might not normalise volatility but use some sort of Z-score metric within the return history.

Or any of about a million possible combinations of these rules.

It will end up with something that delivers activity that look a bit like this: 

Now in the real world you don’t use one rule. You might use a handful. That’s because they’ll all give you slightly different results, have correlations slightly below 1, and, since you don’t know what the best parameter choice in the future will be, averaging lots of them is a reasonably conservative position.

Whether to choose what worked best in the past versus averaging lots of parameters/methods that just worked okay is a design decision. 

Refined company

Once we’ve got our signal, we might pass it through a Cumulative Distribution Function (CDF) to give us something like this:

Then I might set my max weight for this instrument to $10m. This means that when I’m max long I have +$10m of exposure, and when I’m max short I have $-10m of exposure. 

Fine. Then someone asks: “Is it really sensible to stay max long when the thing goes parabolic?”

So we might put the signal through some sort of response function, like this…

(Pretend I can draw. )

Which would in turn produced this sort of affect:

But then someone will point out we could actually ‘train’ the shape of the response function for each asset / rule using machine learning…

And so on. This is the sort of thing that quants who spent four years doing a Physics PhD will get up to for the first couple of years after they join the fund. 

Yet even though we don’t know Winton’s secret sauce – and even after it’s done all this clever stuff – we’ll still be able to tell if the fund is likely long or short an asset just by looking at the asset’s price chart.

Back to Winton

Don’t believe me? Let’s consider a few of Winton’s top positions by ‘risk’ and check the charts.

See if you can guess whether Winton will be long or short the following markets?

Data on our data: Unless otherwise stated all price charts in this article are from Koyfin. This up-and-coming data provider is offering Monevator readers a special sign-up offer via our affiliate link.

And here are Winton’s long/short positions – a.k.a. the answers:

Well done, full marks. Not that complicated, is it?

Portfolio construction

So far we’ve only worried about the signal for a single asset. What about portfolio construction?

We’ve already identified that these funds make no attempt to be ‘market neutral’. We can see that clearly if we look at Winton’s sector exposure: 

Winton is long bonds and stocks, neutral in currencies and metals, and short in softs. 

Sounds simple. However under the surface there’ll be quite a bit of clever portfolio construction going on – especially with respect to trying to balance out volatilities between assets so that the fund is taking similar risks in each asset.

For instance, if you want your full signal in asset A to mean the same thing as a full signal in asset B but asset B has twice the volatility, then you’ll only invest half the $ amount in asset B as in A, to get the same ‘risk contribution’.

For bonus points you might even use implied volatility from the options markets to size your positions, given that’s forward looking. 

The choice of which markets to trade is also highly relevant. One decision required is whether to only trade markets that have ‘worked’ (i.e. trended) in the past. Alternatively, you might take the ideological approach that all markets trend, and you’ve just not observed it in the data yet.

You can usually come up with some rationale for whatever you want to decide the data is telling you!

If you take the view that all markets trend, then the more uncorrelated markets you add, the better your performance will be. Your Sharpe ratio will go up with about the square-root of the number of zero correlation assets you add – but good luck finding them.

It might appear in the backtest (before anyone could actually trade them) that ‘Mongolian horse cheese non-deliverable forwards’ are completely uncorrelated with the rest of your portfolio. But that tends to end the day you add them to the real portfolio. At that point it turns out MHC forwards are pretty much just a really difficult and expensive way to trade the Spooz1.

Things are always uncorrelated until your bonus depends on them staying that way. 

Regardless, any correlation less than one is worth adding to the mix – provided that its market is reasonably well-behaved and cheap to trade. 

Rough trade

We haven’t talked about the actual trading bit yet – there’s quite a bit of that going on whenever your signal changes.

First you’ve got to decide how much of a hurry you’re in (i.e. what’s your ‘alpha decay’ profile).

Then you’ll hand it over to a whole other room of quants who do short-term signals to work out whether to trade now or trade later.

Then, once you’ve actually decided to do your trade, you’ll give it to a machine to schedule.

And that machine will give it to an algo, which will give it to a smart-order router, which will finally send it to an exchange for execution.

Suffice to say the likes of Winton know how to do this well (or at least pay a broker to do it).

Are trend following funds any use though?

You’d think after all that clever stuff we just walked through, these funds would shoot the lights out, right?

Honestly, not really. 

Source: Driving with the Rear-View Mirror 

Is a Sharpe ratio of 0.45 good or bad? I guess it depends what you compare it to. Of course nothing beats the Spooz: 4.7% for trend following vs nearly 12% for the S&P is pretty unexciting. Trend even underperforms the Global 60/40 portfolio.

What’s the point of it?

Well here’s the thing: returns are not what you buy trend following for. 

No, what you buy trend following for is this:

Source: Winton (Note: Its Sharpe is overstated here, because this fund hasn’t been around for long.)

Yes: the fund is giving you negative correlation with both stocks and bonds. 

Where does this negative correlation come from?

Well, because these funds can go short, and markets – including equities – trend, then once stocks start going down, trend funds short them. They therefore make money when stocks lose money. They also tend to go long bonds and risk-off currencies when bad things happen.

This is not a guarantee – they can’t see the future. Sudden shocks could leave them long when the stock market is going down.

In theory the perfect trend-following fund to add as a hedge to an equity-heavy portfolio would not trade the ‘long’ signals in equities, only the short. This would make it a better hedge. But it would reduce returns, since stocks mostly go up, which is why in practice you don’t see such funds.

Anyway if you add something with even fairly ‘meh’ returns, to, say, a 60/40 portfolio, that is actually negatively correlated with it, then you will improve its Sharpe ratio – although not its returns.

Whether it is the Sharpe ratio or returns that matter more to you depends on what sort of investor you are.

But before we dig into that, we need to expose trend following’s dirty little secret.

Trend’s little secret: cash 

The futures contracts and other synthetic instruments that trend followers trade are highly capital efficient. They are all, essentially, just a bet on the direction of a thing, not the purchase of the thing.

This means you only need to post a tiny fraction of the notional as ‘margin’.

For example, for the S&P500 ‘E-minis’ futures, which has a per-contract value of $50 per lot, margin is $12,650 per lot.

So with the S&P at 5,000, you’d need to post $12,650 of margin to get $250,000 worth of exposure ($50*5,000), which is about 5%. 

We can see from the Winton factsheet that the ‘UCITS commitment leverage’ is about 640%: 

Naturally, I love this

The 640% figure is a gross sum of all notional exposure (which is an insane way to measure leverage for rates trades, but, this is UCITS so whatever).

Assuming that the margin requirements across all Winton’s instruments are the same as for the S&P500 the fund would need to post:

640% * 5% = 32% margin

Most margin requirements, measured against notionals, are much, much lower than this.

Generally, in a moderately diverse trend-following portfolio, the margin requirements are about 20% per 10% volatility of the fund. And since Winton is actually targeting 10% volatility for this fund, their margin requirements are about 20% of the investors’ cash.

So what happens to the other 80%?

What do you think? It sits in the bank earning interest. 

Now, there are no free lunches in Finance. So that’s not free money for Winton. The financing cost of a position is obviously reflected in the price of the futures’ basis. (It has to be, otherwise you could make free money with the ‘cash-and-carry’ trade).

However, half the time trend followers are short, and hereby earning, not paying, this carry.

And anyway this structure just reflects the reality that the cash you invest in the fund will pay you the risk-free rate plus any ‘alpha’. 

It all means that the headline returns on trend-following funds are higher when interest rates are positive. Because they are mostly just cash!

Of course, none of this makes any difference to the Sharpe Ratio, where we subtract Rf…

…but psychologically it makes a huge difference.

Let’s say I’m buying my trend following fund as insurance for a mostly equities but some bonds long-only portfolio:

  • If Rf is zero and that insurance costs me a percent in negative returns, then that’s expensive insurance!
  • But if Rf is 5%, and so the insurance actually earns me 4% p.a. net of fees, what’s not to like?

Of course, this is just  money illusion. Assuming inflation was 0% in the first scenario and 5% in the second, then there’s no difference. In fact, the second case is worse, because I’m paying the fund manager fees on what is just inflation.

The other key observation is that – at a 10% volatility – the fund’s margin utilisation is so low that it could run at much higher volatility than this without a problem. 

Fund VolatilityMargin Utilisation
10%20%
20%40%
30%60%
40%80%?

Now, there’s a few operational reasons why you probably wouldn’t want to run 80% margin utilisation. But you could certainly run say 50% – giving your fund a volatility of 25%. 

Why doesn’t Winton? Well, it does, for institutional investors. They can basically do a ‘dial-your-own-volatility’ version of the fund (called a ‘managed account’).

But generally fees scale with volatility. And the higher the volatility the less you need to invest.

The UCITS fund is low volatility because it’s aimed at a somewhat-retail audience that doesn’t really understand this stuff and would be scared by high volatility. And Winton has anyway generally reduced the volatility of its funds as it has removed the performance fee.

In doing so the fund shop is just responding to incentives. As a manager, if you have performance fees you want high volatility, in order to maximise the potential return and hence your take. Whereas if you don’t have performance fees, you want more assets and lower volatility – because people have to invest more for the same return. 

So this is one of my criticisms of the Winton UCITS fund – its volatility is far too low.

The higher the volatility, the less of it I need to add to my 60/40 portfolio to have the hedging impact I’m after.

Adding trend to the 60/40 portfolio

If I’m going to add trend following to my 60/40 portfolio to improve its Sharpe ratio, I’ll clearly need to reduce my allocation to something else to make room. 

Bonds are the obvious candidate. Bonds generally underperform both stocks and trend, and are somewhat there to insure against bad equity markets – which is also what I’m (hoping) the trend-following fund is going to do.

Which bonds should I dial back? Well, the shorter-term ones since, as we’ve already identified, trend is mostly just cash anyway. And what’s the difference between cash and short-term bonds, really?

Let’s consider three portfolios:

  • Portfolio 1: 60 equities / 40 bonds
  • Portfolio 2: 54/36/10 AQR managed futures
  • Portfolio 3 60/30/10 AQR managed futures

Source: Portfolio Visualizer

We can see in the graph that if we replace part of our bond allocation with trend, we get marginally better returns with slightly lower volatility. Also a better Sharpe ratio and much reduced drawdowns.

However I do acknowledge this period I’ve illustrated is too short and too recent. If we’d taken this snapshot in late 2021 we’d have seen a different result.

Do not try this at home

Can we do better? (Those of you who’ve been following me can guess what’s coming here)

That 10% allocation to trend in the above example – we’ve already identified that it’s, like, 80% cash.

So what I’ve really got is a 60/30/2/8 stocks/bond/trend (at 50% volatility) / cash portfolio.

What if – and hear me out here – I took the cash that was inside the trend following fund and… used it to buy stocks!

Then I could have a higher Sharpe ratio and higher returns. 

Now, in the case of the Winton Fund, that’s easier said than done. I could buy Corey Hoffstein’s Return Stacked US Stocks and Managed Futures ETF – which just buys S&P 500 futures with the cash collateral. But most Monevator readers couldn’t, because it’s US-listed. 

Considering the Winton Fund specifically, can I sort of synthetically achieve the same thing?

David Harding presumably doesn’t leave that investor cash laying around in a vault in Hammersmith somewhere. No, he pays it into a bank, where it earns interest.

There’s absolutely nothing stopping me going to that bank and borrowing the money to leverage up the rest of my portfolio – is there?

In fact, it doesn’t even have to be the same bank or the same money. I can simply borrow the same amount of cash as is inside my share of the Winton fund, and net, I’ve not borrowed any money at all.

In fact, my bank could be the futures market – or indirectly the futures market by buying a leveraged ETF.

Of course borrowing costs money – interest – but that’s offset (at least somewhat) by the interest I’m earning on the cash inside the trend fund.

What does this look like then? 

Portfolio 1: 60/40, Portfolio 2: 50/40/10 AQR Managed Futures / -10 Cash

Source: Portfolio Visualizer

Higher returns, lower volatility and lower drawdown (though not much better than simply replacing some bonds with trend to be honest).

Which trend-following fund should I buy?

I’m not going to make a recommendation. There are not many available anyway. And I only invest in funds where I know the principal – so my list is pretty short.

I can however share the ones I own:

  • Winton Trend Fund (UCITS) – GBP I shares
    • Fees are a bit high (1.06%) for what it is
    • Not a very diverse set of instruments
    • Volatility is a bit low for my taste
  • Return Stacked US Stocks and Trend ETF (RSST)
    • Most UK investors can’t buy this because of MiFiD
    • The trend bit targets 13% volatility
    • Fee is a more reasonable 1.04%  – so per unit of vol this is the equivalent of 0.8% compared to the Winton Fund
    • And you get 100% US stocks thrown in for ‘free’
    • Trend construction is not as sophisticated as Winton or AQR
  • AQR (I’m in the process of trying to buy these)
    • AQR Mgd Futures UCITS F GBP (K and C)
      • Cheap: 59bps 
      • Mixed reports as to whether you can actually buy this. (I’ve failed once)
      • Cliff Asness was kind enough to respond to me when I complained about this
    • AQR Alternative Trends IAG1 GBP Acc
      • Expensive: 1.8%
      • Trades all sorts of crazy markets (+)
      • Very good recent performance (which means nothing)

I would love to hear any other ideas in the comments.

If you enjoyed this, you can follow Finumus on Twitter or read his other articles for Monevator.

  1. The S&P 500 forwards contract. []
{ 78 comments… add one }
  • 1 Student Grant March 14, 2024, 12:29 pm

    Great article. You can definitely buy both of the AQR funds via Interactive Investor – I have both. You do need to do it by phone, however, and as it is a Luxembourg listed fund they then redirect you to the international desk – so allow 30-60 minutes to do the various security measures and the scripts they have to read etc. On the positive side, they only charge you web-based dealing commission – £3.99.

    Also worth mentioning that the Return Stacked etfs are not UK reporting, so as well as needing professional status to buy them, also need to hold them in an ISA/SIPP to avoid being charged income tax on the returns.

  • 2 mrbatch March 14, 2024, 1:15 pm

    Great article

    I hold these trend products in a overall portfolio on ii
    Winton ucit as mentioned
    Dunn – MontLake DUNN WMA Inst UCITS GBP Retl P ISIN: IE00B6R2TF82
    Schroder GAIA BlueTrend C Acc GBP Hedged ISIN: LU1293074123 – this has high volatility i believe so maybe of interest.
    Lastly ii are trying to put the 1year old ish… DBMF retail ucit on their platform for me. I have spoken to Andrew Beer the dbi manager for dbmf – it is a uk retail fund but some mifid details are outstanding for ii to load it as buyable. The ISIN for it is IMGP DBi Managed Futures R GBP Shareclass- LU2604833231
    I tried to buy AQR managed futures on ii but got told I couldn’t – would be interested if you get told yes on ii

    My PF is about
    39.5% WTEF/NTSX ( 90% s&p – 60% intemediate treasury 1.5 leverage )
    21% IITU/VHVG
    20% trend – equal split
    14% uk gilts direct T42/t38
    5.5 BHMG macro
    so about 1.2 nett leverage – i use WTEF instead of cheaper simple sp500/bond tracker so i can get the 20% leverage to get 20% trend following in the PF

    BHMG is expensive so think next move will be circa 7.5-10% gold instead of this, and dial down equity a bit.

    Any thoughts?
    Best
    MrBatch

  • 3 MCM March 14, 2024, 2:15 pm

    Not sure why you would have these funds when the annualised figures are not better than a normal global tracker.

  • 4 Mike March 14, 2024, 2:35 pm

    Hi Finumus, great article and hopefully it interests more people in understanding trend following. I have commented on monevator posts before mentioning it’s role in dampening volatility – my personal interest in trend following is for decumulation (a phase I am not in yet!), as there is evidence that the reduced volatility substantially increases your safe withdrawal rate. Have you ever considered going DIY with your trend following? I am a subscriber to Allocate Smartly (not sure if I can post links but you will easily find it by googling), where you can combine trend following strategies and at the end of each month it tells you what ETFs etc you need to buy / sell, so you are buying gold / S&P500 / EM etc ETFs directly rather than paying a fee to invest in a trend following ETF. It is a bit of work, and depending on your broker it can be a pain to find appropriate funds (IBKR not letting you invest in ETFs that do not have a KID) but it is a great resource and pretty cheap.

  • 5 mrbatch March 14, 2024, 2:41 pm

    @MCM
    My view is that it is trying to look at a portfolio as a whole for return in light of risk and diversification.
    Highest return is probably Bitcoin or QQQ – I wouldn’t go all in on these 100% so a balance is needed. Lets say you are 100% vrwl or veve etc and they go down 50% – quite possible. It’s at that time other things like bonds, gold, commodities, etc can help – Trend(CTA’s/managed futures) can offer these as well as equity and they can go Short as well as long which can help.
    Overall its all just a view and an opinion – 100% equity when young is a good call maybe – i’m a bit older so different. I am perplexed on going from accum to decumulation in terms of portfolio construction – old thinking of much more bonds may be changed if consider SP your bonds so your PF maybe higher equity.. or trend !

  • 6 Finumus March 14, 2024, 2:56 pm

    @mrbatch
    On buying the AQR funds – it’s not without difficulty. Sometimes they’ll let me, sometimes they won’t…. for ‘reasons’. Sometimes it’s … can’t buy it, escalate the issue, a few days later they sort it out, then I can buy it. They are always phone only (which is a pain, because – given the 30-60 mins nonsense – I can’t really buy them for family accounts, only mine.)

    @MCM
    You would have these funds? Because adding them to a global equity fund increases your Sharpe ratio because they are negatively correlated and therefore you can then leverage up to the same volatility as a global tracker and have higher returns…. Or the same returns and lower risk. Sharpe Ratio is all that matters in the presence of leverage.

    @Mike
    No. I’ve not considered going DIY. I hope it’s obvious from the article that there’s a bit more to it than just following some simple signals.

  • 7 mrbatch March 14, 2024, 3:16 pm

    @studentgrant
    I’m on ii – which share class did they allow you to buy ? C, F or Q ?
    Thanks in advance
    MrBatch

  • 8 TahiPanasDua March 14, 2024, 3:56 pm

    Really interesting article. Unfortunately I live on a different planet.
    TP2

  • 9 Delta Hedge March 14, 2024, 4:42 pm

    Superb article @Finumus. A complex subject exceptionally clearly explained.

    I’ve just asked HL to consider adding the AQR Managed Futures fund and the Schroeder GAIA BlueTrend fund. Fingers crossed. Should know in 5 working days.

    If it succeeds I’ll ask the same for DBMF.

    I’m basically with @Mr Batch’s thoughts in this, and share his approach of combining potential diversifiers like trend with return stacked products like WTEF ETF (although its AUM is still just £6mn, and going up by only about £1mn pcm since the UK launch in October, which means that the spread is a chunky 0.54% quoted as typical, which is nearly 3 years’ worth of OCF @0.2%p.a.)

    If I may give a quick Hat Tip here to pictureperfectportfolios.com, which is a Canadian writer (going by the pseudonym Nomadic Samuel) covering all things return stacked and trend related, albeit with a distinctly non-PRIIPs/MiFID US product range. His SPY Hunter and The Contrarian portfolios are two of the most intriguing ones utilising return stacking I’ve seen. RSST features in a number of his ideas.

  • 10 Student Grant March 14, 2024, 5:08 pm

    @Finumus – Re AQR fee: the 0.59% is on the F class – only the C class is available on ii (at least that is what they told me) and that charges 0.79%. Go figure.

    @mrbatch – the GBP hedge REALLY puts me off the Schroder GAIA BlueTrend fund – and again, I can’t see that ii has the unhedged version. However, I’d jump at getting some DBMF if they add it – fingers crossed! Also, make sure you were asking for the right AQR Managed Futures class on ii – they list C, F and K, but only sell C. Obviously.

  • 11 Student Grant March 14, 2024, 5:18 pm

    @Finumus @mrbatch
    Now that I am reading again Finumus’ comments on the randomness of buying AQR Manage Futures, I am wondering if in fact you can buy the cheaper F class on the right day with the right person (and with a free hour to spend on the phone). Maybe @Finumus can confirm the share class he was able to buy?

  • 12 mrbatch March 14, 2024, 7:18 pm

    @studentgrant
    Website for Schoder GAIA says for GBP there are only hedged versions of the fund. It has performed worse for me than Dunn and Winton. Hedged as reason – maybe or just higher vol target?
    If ii add dbmf it will be there ucit version not the usa etf DBMF but Andrew Beer seemed to think it was a better closely linked product rather than their earlier product SEI GMF liquid alternative ucit fund which is also available on ii. Yes fingers crossed

    @delta hedge
    Yes WTEF AUM is an issue – hope it continues to grow. Ntsx etf grew well in USA so….
    Also picture perfect is great to read – brilliant artwork. As usual a shame in the UK we can’t use any of these products to help retail investors manage risk better. We are forced to majority long equity, long bond etc with little risk parity products available

  • 13 JP March 14, 2024, 9:25 pm

    @Finumus
    The fee you quote for the AQR Managed Futures fund is for an institutional F share class with a minimum investment of millions. That might explain why you are having issues buying it. The retail share classes charge 0.79% (and 10% performance fee) or 1.19% and no performance fee.

  • 14 Student Grant March 14, 2024, 9:57 pm

    @mrbatch
    you can get some of the etfs in an IBKR ISA, but it’s variable – some are considered too complex/leveraged by IBKR, others are fine. I have NTSI, NTSE, GDE, RSST, and RSSB (and used to have FIG and KMLM too – and UPAR is available). But your general point is absolutely right – it’s a real pity most people can’t access these in the UK (yet?).

  • 15 Sparschwein March 14, 2024, 11:54 pm

    Trend funds seem to behave quite differently depending on their time horizon. I went for a 50/50 split between fast-medium and medium-slow.
    Access is patchy, every broker seems to arbitrarily decide which funds to offer to [the plebs] retail. I picked Schroder GAIA Bluetrend via IBKR and Montlake Dunn, available as institutional share class and a decent 0.6% charge at AJ Bell.

  • 16 JP March 15, 2024, 6:57 am

    @Sparschwein
    There is a 0.6% management fee on the DUNN institutional share class but a 25% performance fee! Great long-term track record, but not cheap by any stretch of the imagination…

  • 17 Finumus March 15, 2024, 9:41 am

    @JP – On the AQR Mgd Futures Funds. Yes, sorry, you are correct, ii told me I can buy the “C” and were querying the “F”. I’ve not actually bought either, I do hold the “AQR Alternative Trends IAG1 GBP Acc” with ii. Otherwise I have the Winton fund in family accounts.

    @Sparschwein This is useful info. AJ Bell charge you on top of that for holding funds though, don’t they? So you’re paying the DUNN fee, the performance fee, and the AJ Bell fee. Don’t know how this compares to Winton. @JP – Do you know if their performance fee has a hurdle?

  • 18 JP March 15, 2024, 10:23 am

    @Finumus
    The DUNN KIID just says performance fee is above previous highest NAV, which would suggest no hurdle, whereas AQR specify a UK interest rate hurdle on their C share class.

    One question for you: why are the returns of the Winton fund better or in line with AQR and DUNN over most periods if it has a lower volatility?

  • 19 Sparschwein March 15, 2024, 12:34 pm

    @JP – good point. “In the Fund’s last financial year the performance fee was 5.35% of the Fund.” Ouch. Still, it’s up ~9% while Bluetrend duly tanked right after I bought it, and remains in the red. Schroder charges 1.47% plus 10% performance with high water mark (class C).

    @Finumus – yes AJ Bell charge 0.25% uncapped on funds.
    I should look at the AQR funds again. Could you say a bit more, why you chose these?

  • 20 mrbatch March 15, 2024, 2:08 pm

    @finums @sparschwein
    AQR – trying to get fund facts, datasheet, figures etc. Myaqr for the ucits funds is structured for institutional investor – you need an account to get in to read funds info ( with email address reflecting working in the industry – not my gmail adresss )
    its here – https://ucits.aqr.com/
    Do you have anywhere to get full fund info , performance etc ? ft, morningstar ii aj bell etc not have full monthly factsheers etc etc. why are aqr hiding this from retail when the funds are sold to retail investors ??

  • 21 Jam March 15, 2024, 2:52 pm

    Thanks for the article, the explantion of how this works is wonderful.

    I do follow the logic of improving your risk adjusted returns so that you get more return for a given level of risk, or less risk for a given level of return.

    From other people’s comments it seems hard to find the right ETF’s to easily do this and would take extra time to manage a portfolio compared to my simple global equities/bonds allocation, i.e, the need to rebalance a third uncorrelated asset.

    I am just not sure that for me, the extra returns on my (relatively small) FIRE portfolio would be worth the extra effort. I would guess you would need to be a UHNW individual to make it worthwhile.

  • 22 Finumus March 15, 2024, 3:04 pm

    @JP
    So – Why AQR? I kind of vaguely know Cliff Asness (AQR) and a fair few people who work at AQR – they are a very high quality shop. This doesn’t mean that their returns will be any good, but I have quite a high level of confidence that 1) They will do what they say they do. 2) They will not make any unforced errors 3) They will not do anything dodgy. (This is also, somewhat the case with Winton). I’m not sure how useful a measure of anything this is, but the opposite kept me out of: Woodford, SONG and Odey.

    @mrbatch – Yes, getting the factsheets is a problem. I’ve actually complained to them this again today though, it’s a bit silly that you can buy the funds as “retail” now but can’t get access to the factsheets.

  • 23 Sparschwein March 15, 2024, 5:40 pm

    Thanks. Cliff Asness is certainly a contender for “Best academic paper headline” https://www.aqr.com/Insights/Research/Working-Paper/Size-Matters-If-You-Control-Your-Junk

    The above AQR funds (Mgd Futures class C / IAG1) are available on AJ Bell, but the latter is “restricted from dealing”. No factsheets there, only the KIDs.
    AJ Bell also list AQR Managed Futures Strategy and Managed Futures Strategy HV funds without any further info, and not tradeable online.

  • 24 indyinv 3.0 March 15, 2024, 6:52 pm

    Great article about an often overlooked “asset class”/ source of alpha. Trend following funds are designed to catch trends, of course, in a systematic and risk -controlled way and can be a useful diversifier if they are well run and manage risk appropriately.

  • 25 Algernond March 15, 2024, 7:51 pm

    This is an excellent post @finumus. Thanks.
    I’m still having difficulty understanding the Winton Long/Short positions chart. E.g., for fixed income, what does -2% to +37% mean? I can see the overall position is long for fixed income, but not understand how it’s quantified by those nos.

    For the AQR managed futures, I mentioned on Twitter a while back I could buy the F-class on II (online), but this was over a year ago that I last bought… will see if they let me add to my position in April.

    With HL, have asked for both the Schroder Blue Trend and AQR funds but they say no “’cause leverage”, even though they DO have Winton and Montlake Dunn!
    (I have the Schroder BT on II).

    I’ve replaced all my bond funds with Trend Following funds over the last couple of years. The only bonds I now have are in ITs.

    As for DIY, I had been running a hybrid momentum / Trend following fund using ETFs for most of last year (included some short & leveraged ETFs). It was a lot of effort, and was too much in the end to maintain alongside the PAYE job, so I stopped it. It’s performance followed the above mentioned funds, so I suppose I was doing it approximately right.
    Now I’m running an experimental paper trading Trend Following account in a spread-betting site, and plan to put real money in with pension lump sum in 1-2 years time.
    (this is the other way to do it tax free I suppose).

    Another thing I’m trying to understand about managed futures, is the risk of the financial instruments themselves. E.g., in a global financial meltdown, is total loss a higher risk for futures, than for stocks ?

    Lots of great comments and things to follow up on…. Thanks again.

  • 26 Sparschwein March 15, 2024, 8:04 pm

    Correction: the AQR “IAG1” fund at AJ Bell is not the above AQR Alternative Trends, but share class “IAG1F” of AQR Managed Futures UCITS Fund.

  • 27 Boffinboy March 15, 2024, 11:06 pm

    Very interesting read, as ever. Curious what the tax treatment is of Winton and similar funds? Capital gains as it doesn’t actually hold the assets?

  • 28 Hugo March 16, 2024, 8:28 am

    This book https://www.amazon.co.uk/Following-Trend-Diversified-Managed-Futures/dp/1118410858/ref=asc_df_1118410858?nodl=1&tag=googshopuk-21&linkCode=df0&hvadid=310843183616&hvpos=&hvnetw=g&hvrand=6874242541749028682&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=m&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=1006886&hvtargid=pla-461013695412&psc=1&mcid=b0f3db4ece503aed9efefdf60180750b&th=1&psc=1&dplnkId=bb3b6e4c-df11-47a4-90e6-3ae3c2c23715 is quite interesting. If I remember rightly it suggests momentum trading only works on commodities and with a very large invested amount. Also the strategy started failing in terms of outperformance although I can still see the benefits as a diversifier when asset prices seem high.

  • 29 Algernond March 16, 2024, 1:01 pm

    BTW @Finumus. Do you listen to the ‘Top Traders Unplugged’ (TTU) podcast? They’ve primarily been discussing Trend Following with well known characters in the Trend Following sector for years, with also macro and asset allocation episodes.

  • 30 Rosario March 16, 2024, 2:22 pm

    I’ve been thinking of adding Winton to my AJBell ISA for a while but have held off due to feeling the 0.25% fee plus fund charge was a little steep and I’d prefer to find a suitable similar ETF.

    I may need a rethink as evidence in this article would certainly suggest that may be a premium worth paying.

  • 31 Ex-Locust March 16, 2024, 2:56 pm

    This is a very very helpful article not least as I’d lost hope of buying the AQR funds. I guess that’s also a good sign for my chances of buying any AQR factor funds. Thank you.

    If you are a qualified investor and can write $100k tickets you can invest direct in DUNN’s full-vol WMA strategy (if memory serves nearly 40 years track record at I think 13% CAGR) and in Mulvaney’s absolutely vast-vol hairy scary beast of a trend fund. >20 yr history with >17% CAGR…

  • 32 CaffersXL March 16, 2024, 8:48 pm

    What sort of market environments would cause this to perform low/flat on a consistent basis? I.e. chugging along at sub-cash levels for extended periods?

    And what are the tail risks that could blow this up if you bought (say Winton) and blindly held?

  • 33 Boffinboy March 16, 2024, 8:57 pm

    @ 32CaffersXL also very curious on this. My portfolio is fully passive and simple bonds and global tracker. This article and the ones about broad commodities have got me wondering about small allocations bought and held for diversification.

  • 34 mrbatch March 16, 2024, 9:42 pm

    @boffinboy @caffersxl

    My thoughts are whipsaws happen alot. Trend is a systematic approach – they don’t predict the future and make discretionary decisions ( normally ) but the systems respond to market pricing day by day and buy & sell accordingly. Most funds manage volatility & risk so as volatility rises the positions shrink a bit – Dunn do this. So if the markets whip saw the trend funds can be in/out of positions and sell at a loss to close positions, and then rebuy fairly quickly if the pricing trends change. Long term trends ..think cocoa at present or the short bond positions in 2022/23 … can develop very nicely. The other good thing generally is that Trend can short markets rather than be long only so in drawdowns they will go down if they were long, but will quickly rotate to short position in big market drawdowns which gives them the chance to be low/un correlated with normal stocks and bonds. So that is the opportunity to diversify … as i see it. Long periods of general market neutrality would give flat/low returns. If trend funds trade futures then they will also have a fair bit of cash gaining interest as only small % amounts of real funds are placed as collateral for the futures, rather than full price for general equities.
    General in UK we can only buy ucit funds – all the fun etf’s in USA are out of reach for retail investors like me due to regulation – crazy as you can buy here 3x daily short nasdaq with decay which can be really dangerous quickly.
    As mentioned top traders unplugged with Niels seems by far the best trend/cta/managed futures podcast series and website out there. They also have a trend barometer on their website as a daily trend strength guide.

    Best
    MrBatch

  • 35 Algernond March 17, 2024, 9:16 am

    What’s happened to @TLI ? Was looking forward to his comment on this…

  • 36 Gareth Ghost March 17, 2024, 9:43 am

    Rosario #30
    Why not move your portfolio to Interactive Investor (for example) who charge a flat fee, thereby skipping the 0.25% AJB platform charge? You might even be eligible for a cashback payment when you move it.

  • 37 Rosario March 17, 2024, 11:03 am

    @GG
    Fair question. My current portfolio with AJB is all ETF’s so capped at £3.50 a month. That’s not been an issue so far. Maybe worth looking into though.

  • 38 Delta Hedge March 17, 2024, 11:52 am

    A shout out for @Indy Inv 3.0 (#24 above) who provides a very useful compliment to the brilliant (and so clearly explained) article above by @Finumus in 2 recent articles on Substack covering both Winton Trend & why cap weight index trackers are arguably a form of momentum, such that buy and hold is its own mild version of trend following (I agree, BTW).

    Pure trend though is technicals based, whereas LTBH cap weight index tracking should be fundamentals based because, whilst the market is a sentiment machine in the shorter term, it should become a weighing machine over longer timescales.

    But this distinction does not make it a binary choice between LTBH cap weight index trackers and (pure) trend following (or for that matter factor investing).

    They can seem in contradiction but both be true.

    As F. Scott Fitzgerald put it: “The test of a first-rate intelligence is the ability to hold two opposing ideas in mind at the same time and still retain the ability to function.”

  • 39 Boffinboy March 17, 2024, 1:46 pm

    Thanks @mrbatch I was piqued by the relative lack of correlation / negative correlation in the article. Eyeballing the past 5 years vs eg Vanguard Lifestrategy 60 as an quick comparison it was interesting to note Winton rose nicely when it tanked. On both this and broad commodities front, without having a stronger personal understanding I’m slightly reluctant to go more than a few percent of my passive portfolio (eg 2.5% each for now, maybe moving up to 5% over time – 65:35:5:5)… but struggle with the fact that if it’s 5% or under will it really make any meaningful difference? I also want to avoid having to monitor a trend fund too actively, which is one of the great benefits of passive. I suppose if it all goes wrong then the amount I’ve saved by “rolling my own” portfolio vs paying someone will have probably offset the loss!

  • 40 Penny Dropper March 18, 2024, 7:03 am

    @Algernond
    could be that the required number of subscribers has been met so his service has been withdrawn

  • 41 The Investor March 18, 2024, 2:42 pm

    @all — We were hit in the past hour with a tsunami of spam and I’ve had to delete everything (nearly 1,000 spam comments, half of which are several hundred words long) without checking for misplaced real comments.

    Apologies if something you posted went missing in this furore – good comments are always appreciated on Monevator – please blame the scamming scumbags not me 🙁

  • 42 Delta Hedge March 19, 2024, 4:37 pm

    FIO HL have just refused to list either Schroeder’s GAIA BlueTrend or AQR Managed Futures. The former because it has a “different settlement cycle” (?) and the latter because they can only ‘see’ the Class F institutional share class. Hey ho. At least it’s for techy reasons I suppose.

  • 43 Pro March 20, 2024, 12:08 pm

    Ah the FOMO of CTAs rears its head once again after a long hibernation. The alluring call of hope for diversification for those scared of volatility in equities. After 10 years of brutal underperformance while fund managers got fat off 1-3%+ mgmt fees, CTAs have yet again done a little counter wiggle to shock and awe investors into buying them again.

  • 44 mrbatch April 11, 2024, 12:44 am

    @student grant #14

    how did you get ibkr to ok the purchase of “NTSI, NTSE, GDE, RSST, and RSSB (and used to have FIG and KMLM too – and UPAR ” in your ISA ?#
    Are you working in the finance industy with qualifications or could you do it as “joe public”?
    Thanks in advance
    MrBatch

  • 45 mrbatch April 15, 2024, 5:03 pm

    Can anyone advise / guide on these questions re Managed futures / trend following for identified funds so far
    Dunn WMAI
    Winton Trend
    Schoder GAIA
    AQR managed futures

    a, a guide on target volatility – wmai is 1/2 the full program so about 9%, winton long average is about 9 – unsure others

    b. A guide on the trading speed of the trend programmes. I think Dunn is fairly slow speed, unsure on the rest

    c, any other buyable funds/etfs in this space for UK isa or sipp platforms?

    Thanks in advance
    MrBatch

  • 46 Sparschwein April 15, 2024, 10:24 pm

    @mrbatch – when I looked into this over a year ago, I noted:
    Schroder: “BlueTrend runs its models at the faster end of the medium-term trend spectrum”
    Winton: medium-to-slow
    Montlake Dunn: medium-to-slow
    It’s based on scrappy bits of info that could be outdated by a few years. If anyone has more recent knowledge I’d be interested too.

    AQR has a Managed Futures Strategy High Vol Fund which is interesting but isn’t available in any of my accounts.

  • 47 Delta Hedge April 23, 2024, 2:27 pm

    Interesting paper from Man Institute on inflation regimes and trend following:

    https://www.man.com/maninstitute/road-ahead-regime-based-investing

    Covered today in the Paper Alpha substack post “Regimes, Trends and Models. A true trend is your friend”:

    https://open.substack.com/pub/paperalfa/p/regimes-trends-and-models

  • 48 Finumus April 25, 2024, 11:43 am

    @mrbatch How do I buy US ETFs in my IBKR ISA? You need to be categorised as a professional investor under MIFID, which I am by way of job experience (banking, trading, etc)

  • 49 Delta Hedge April 28, 2024, 10:08 am

    Nice recent (29 March 2024) review of RSSB here:

    https://www.optimizedportfolio.com/rssb/

    My attempts (following the UK listing of WisdomTree’s NTSX as WTEF) to get hold of any of NTSI, NTSE, RSSB, RSST or RSBT on any platform have all, so far, proven singularly unsuccessful. Basically with MiFID and PRIIPs it’s a a case of no puedo ayudar 🙁

  • 50 Zonekey April 28, 2024, 11:13 am

    @Delta Hedge – thank you. That’s a very interesting read. One to bookmark.

  • 51 Student Grant May 2, 2024, 1:27 pm

    @mrbatch #44
    I am joe public, but if you can show an amount of trading and an amount of assets above their cut off, and go through a bit of regulatory stuff, you can get it approved. I had enough trading on my IBKR account to qualify, but had to upload details of assets from other ISAs to met their capital amount. Maybe £500K from memory?

  • 52 mrbatch May 4, 2024, 3:40 pm

    @student grant
    Thanks for this – encouraging to know it can be done
    Have you traded any leveraged stuff like RSSB, RSST or RSBT or UPAR ?

  • 53 Delta Hedge June 1, 2024, 6:19 pm

    Nice article from Man Group / Man AHL on optimisation of the portfolio level allocation to trend following:
    https://www.man.com/maninstitute/honey-i-shrunk-the-trend-following

    They’ve also got a good piece on leverage overlays and risk parity (thinking here of @Finumus’ Mogul leverage articles):
    https://www.man.com/maninstitute/leverage-equal-risk

    Bring on those capital efficient US ETFs.

  • 54 mrbatch June 3, 2024, 8:27 pm

    Nice piece from Aspect Capital on trend following CTA

    Aspect Capital – Capturing Unpredictability
    https://aspectcapital.s3.amazonaws.com/documents/Aspect_Capital_Insight_Series_-_Capturing_Unpredictability_-_Trend_Following_A_MXbSrol.pdf?utm_source=theideafarm.com&utm_medium=newsletter&utm_campaign=lessons-from-the-tech-bubble

    @DeltaHedge
    Are you thinking Resolve type etf with equity / Managed futures leveraged products or general capital efficient etf like WTEF /NTSX?

  • 55 Delta Hedge June 3, 2024, 11:00 pm

    Thanks @mr batch #54: I think maybe Newfoundland Research/ReSolve have a slight edge over WisdomTree’s range as their RSSB ETF (US launch on 5/12/23, reviewed by Optimized Portfolio 29/3/24) gives an all-in-one ETF effective (automatically rebalanced) exposure to:
    – 60% US all cap;
    – 40% ex US developed and EM; and,
    – 100% US Treasuries from 2 to 30 year maturities.
    Frankly, that could be the single ETF portfolio for many investors. But I think that if these US ETFs do ever become available in the UK (and if I could then move the SIPP and ISA to IBkr in order to take advantage of their 3 basis points FX fee) then I’d use RSSB ETF as a core block of a portfolio which attempted to replicate in slightly modified form the “SPY Hunter” portfolio on the Picture Perfect Portfolio website by:
    – substituting half the 40% allocation to RSST ETF in the SPY Hunter with RSSB;
    – reducing the GDE ETF allocation from 10% down to 5% and then adding in a 5% allocation to a Broad Commodities ETF; and,
    – replacing a quarter of the remaining 20% allocation to RSST with the Simplify Market Neutral Equity Long/Short EQLS ETF (reviewed separately on Picture Perfect Portfolio), giving EQLS a 5% allocation, and leaving a 15% allocation to RSST.
    I think that would be my dream portfolio at the moment.

  • 56 mrbatch June 4, 2024, 9:16 am

    Yes – alot of fun could be had
    Picture Portfolio is a lovely site for info and I love the cartoon pictures to look at!

    There has been alot of talk about UK allowing USA based etf’s recently – anyone on the site working in fin servcies got any thoughts / information
    about this ?

  • 57 mrbatch July 10, 2024, 4:19 pm

    Anyone who may be interested and wanted to invest in DBMF usa etf but can’t – most of us really…… the closest you can buy in UK is iMGP dbi Managed Futures SICAV fund

    It is advised by dbi who run dbmf etf

    https://www2.imgp.com/im…bi-managed-futures-fund

    ii have finally put it on their platform as a retail product ISIN: LU2604833231. I understand it is also on AJ Bell and is being onboarded to HL

    I’m advised by imgp that the fund has AUM over 100m$.

  • 58 Delta Hedge July 14, 2024, 1:52 pm

    Nice review of a new ‘how much trend following to use?’ paper from MAN Group:

    https://the7circles.uk/how-much-trend-man/

  • 59 mrbatch July 17, 2024, 10:49 am
  • 60 Algernond August 1, 2024, 9:33 pm

    For the iMGP dbi Managed Futures fund (both R & I units), the factsheets say 1% max redemption fee. I don’t like the sound of that…

  • 61 mrbatch August 1, 2024, 10:14 pm

    @algernond

    Nothing on the ii cost KID about this. I have seen many funds that say they may charge upto 5% for purchase and there have never been any charges. I will contact imgp and ask re this

  • 62 mrbatch August 2, 2024, 9:46 am

    @algernond

    Feedback from imgp received today by email

    “I can confirm that iMGP waive the redemption fees for UK platforms”

  • 63 algernond August 2, 2024, 9:51 am

    Thanks @mrbacth. I got the factsheets from here: https://www.imgp.com/en/imgpfunds/funds?size=n_20_n&sort-field=share_class_name_raw&sort-direction=asc

    On another note, it’s really odd how IBKR won’t let me buy the DBMF ETF in my ISA, yet buying those return stacked ETFs is OK (e.g. RSST).

  • 64 Algernond August 2, 2024, 10:55 am

    Great news @mrbatch – many thanks.
    (I think I posted my above comment at the same time as you, so hadn’t seen it)

  • 65 Delta Hedge August 2, 2024, 11:27 am

    Hi @Algernond. Very interesting that IBKR are allowing purchases of the RSST return stacked US ETF for an ISA.

    Are you able to see on IBKR which of the RSSB, RSBT and RSSY return staked ETFs (from ReSolve Asset Management and Newfound Research) and WisdomTree’s NTSI, NTSE, GDE and GDMN return stacked ETFs are available in either or both a ISA and/or SIPP. If they’ve got the Resolve ones it might tempt me to move brokers. My broker/platform doesn’t offer due to PRIIPS regulations and MiFID.

  • 66 algernond August 2, 2024, 12:38 pm

    Hello @Delta Hedge

    I managed to get the MiFID Professional Client status on IBKR earlier this year. I don’t have that much with them at the moment, but I uploaded statements from other brokers, and that was enough for them.
    So that’s given me a wider range of ETFs that I can trade with them.

    I don’t have a SIPP with them, but in my ISA they allow as follows from your list:
    • Yes: RSSB, RSBT, RSSY, NTSI, NTSE, GDE, GDMN
    • No: DBMF (but will allow in trading account)

    (also note – cannot buy OEIC or mutual funds with them at the moment in an ISA….)

  • 67 Delta Hedge August 2, 2024, 1:51 pm

    Thanks @algernond.

    Where I’ll struggle with IBKR is getting my own Professional Client Category Request form approved. HL gave me a waiver back in 2008 but that makes no difference now with them as they just don’t touch US ETFs post-PRIIPS.

    It amazes me that the effect of the FCA’s chosen application of the PRIIPS regulations and the MiFID is that it’s deemed OK to let retail investors buy lots of outright 3x daily reset LETFs on super volatile underlying single stock names and single commodities (and to buy their 3x leveraged inverse equivalents); but it’s then at the same time also deemed not to be OK to give ready access to 1.5x leverage products with built in low to negatively correlated asset class pairs, using much lower volatility underlying broad market indices, and also using rolling futures (rather than daily reset, with it’s comparatively elevated volatility drag risk).

    The FCA position here just isn’t internally coherent or internally logical from a consumer protection perspective.

  • 68 Algernond August 2, 2024, 4:40 pm

    Regarding the DBi trend following fund (DBMF or the UCITS version), I’ve heard Andrew Beer talk about this on Top Traders Unplugged a couple of times about how the fund is replicating the ‘Trend Followers’ using a limited set of instruments. Eg., for commodities they only use Gold & Crude Oil.
    I wasn’t fully convinced by what he was saying (was probably beyond me).
    Anyone else got thoughts on this ?

  • 69 mrbatch August 3, 2024, 12:22 pm

    @algernond #68
    i am invested in the dbi dbmf ucit we discussed. All cta/managed futures programmes have/offer differing views on the amount of markets to trade. Diversification is good until it tails off and transaction costs rise for trickier trades and the impact is smaller. dbmf try to mirror an average of leading cta hedge funds using about 11 instruments as they feel they can achieve good results like this but keep transaction TER costs down against full on hedge funds. Does it work ? Time will tell same as with stacked leveraged funds we are discussing. I think trend over long time has historically worked and is correalated against more traditional 60/40 so i invest here.

    @delta hedge #67
    fully agree 3uls a daily inverse s&p500 short is allowed on ii for example – i have held in the past – dangerous in my opinion compared to something like ntsx/(wtef the gbp share class i invest in) with 1.5 leverage but only the bonds leveraged on futures not the circa 90% equity.

    Maybe of interest to both of you I was advised on another site that isa/sipp aside one could invest using these 2 platforms

    https://tastytrade.com/
    &
    https://hellostake.com/uk

    I will be testing stake this year for return stacked etf’s and some risk parity ones – it seems ( untested purchase so far ) that alot of the newest usa etf’s are available to buy as a uk investor in non tax sheltered wrapper. Not ideal but if can trade better than nothing.
    Yes there is the 0.5% fee to go from £ to $ which is on buy and sell. Obviously not ideal but it may be the only way to obtain access to these vehicles from the uk if indeed trades are as seems.

    Roll on the simpler ability for uk investors to buy these funds directly on all major platforms OR uk etf’s to do these functions are setup

  • 70 Algernond August 3, 2024, 1:35 pm

    @mrbatch. Totally in with Trend Following. It’s 25% of my portfolio (all UCIT funds)

    Trouble is I’m massively overweight Winton at the moment. Dunn I don’t like the fee structure, AQR is getting more difficult to access (I have in II, but they refuse to allow any more), and Shroder BlueTrend performance has been poor.

    For the DBi fund, I’m fine with them being in only 11 instruments at a time, I just still don’t quite get why they need to limit their investable universe so much. E.g
    , they’ll always miss out on something like Cocoa! Anyway, I will put sizable chunk in with them later this year.

    Also plan on some RSST.

  • 71 mrbatch August 6, 2024, 10:24 am

    @algernond
    Yes i have 24% of my PF in trend/managed futures.
    I hold roughly split winton, dbi dbmf and Dunn WMAI.
    Winton has been best performer for me
    I did have Schroder bluetrend but have sold for dbi. I think it was fully hedged against a Euro share class which worked against it, whereas i think the others are gbp share class against a main usd fund which seems to work better in stress times as typically $ strengthens and £ weakens

  • 72 algernond August 7, 2024, 1:48 pm

    Well…. I see all of the trend following / managed futures funds have dropped along with stocks in the last few days. So much for not being correlated.
    I guess now is a good time for topping up though.

  • 73 The Investor August 7, 2024, 1:59 pm

    @algernond — I would expect a trend-following strategy to follow shares down (it’s following the trend) in a sudden correction and to suffer short-term in a reversal. It’d have to see the trend broken and latch onto a new trend.

    If trend-following strategies have an advantage re: reversals IMHO it’s that they’d get you out after say 10-20% of a 40% drawdown before it happens (but potentially then fail to capture some of the bounceback).

    I’m no expert but I doubt the US market trend has even been broken here. Possibly the Nasdaq, but again I haven’t looked and know nothing about it. 🙂

  • 74 Mrbatch August 7, 2024, 2:09 pm

    @algernond and @the investor

    Agreed. Don’t expect trend to go up if markets down instantly. They are at best zero correlated not -1 like a tail risk strategy. As noted they will get you out quicker potentially. Trend hates whipsaw markets and prefers longer trends. They have over longer terms generated better risk adjusted returns and lower drawdowns against equity / bonds portfolio. If current market falls harder down they may trend short on equity that could begin to offset equity losses elsewhere. I see them not as a line item but part of hopefully a diversified portfolio overall.

  • 75 Algernond August 7, 2024, 4:43 pm

    yeah @TI, @mrbatch. I knew that really about TF funds not going up instantly other asset classes go down. I said ‘So much for not being correlated’ to elicit some nice extra comments, which happened 🙂

    I am definitely topping up my TF allocation this week before too much recovery.

  • 76 Algernond August 9, 2024, 11:40 am

    BTW, I checked this week with both HL and IWeb to get the dbi dbmf UCIT fund added.

    IWEB just refused ‘cos reasons (I pointed out they had Winton which is a very similar fund, but they weren’t having it).

    HL said not enough interest yet to add the fund manager, but if more people showed interest they would consider – so anyone reading this who would like it on HL, please contact them.

  • 77 Delta Hedge August 10, 2024, 3:36 pm

    @Algernond, @TI and @Mrbatch #72-74: Societe Generale CTA index now under lots of pressure YTD after a ‘stellar’ start to the year, according to the trend following section in economic historian Adam Tooze’s latest blog post:

    https://open.substack.com/pub/adamtooze/p/the-mpox-alarm-how-trend-chasing

  • 78 Delta Hedge September 22, 2024, 5:39 pm

    Some recent research on return stacked trend following summarised by Mike Rawson of the7circles:

    https://the7circles.uk/irregular-roundup-17th-september-2024/

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