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The contrast effect: Post-FIRE life vs old life

A graphic illustration of the contrast between pre-and post-FIRE life.

This is about a day in my post-FIRE1 life and how achieving financial independence changed everything.

So it begins

Pre-FIRE
The summer holidays are over. It’s nose to the grindstone now from late August until late October. Day in, day out.

Post-FIRE
A friend wonders if I’m around for a bike ride next week? I can do that!

Just another day

Pre-FIRE
I internally rage at the injustice of a September day drenched in sunshine when I’m stuck in the office. Too many of my August days off were just drenched.

Post-FIRE
We’re not tied to a schedule, so we pick the best day of the week for the ride. This is how to play the British weather lottery…

My favourite waste of time

Pre-FIRE
I’m stuck in the meeting time forgot. Theoretically it’s about strategy. In reality, a higher-up is chucking time on a bonfire, talking about things that will never happen, because they want to feel in control.

Post-FIRE
I’m cycling through a sunny country lane with a good friend, gassing about nothing. Occasionally we’re stunned into silence by the views.

This is a crisis!

Pre-FIRE
A client sends cryptic feedback. Our work isn’t impactful enough. Can we make it pop? They want something more viral. (I’ll give them something more viral.) The day is derailed. I’ll be dealing with this long into the evening.

Post-FIRE
We’ve dragged our bikes halfway up a muddy hill when some cows want their cowpath back. Fair dos, they’re bigger than us. But the embankments are choked with man-eating nettles. We curse, slide, and laugh our way back down.

Mothers shepherd their newly minted calves past us. The babies are cute as buttons! One little nipper springs by – full of beans on slippery stones. You go girl. Another’s very cautious and needs a nudge from mum. Aw.

Losing it

Pre-FIRE
A member of the team has lost their confidence. Another has lost their password. Still another their laptop. I’m losing my mind.

Post-FIRE
I spot some tasty-looking blackberries. Sweet! What’s this? A wee calf abiding in the undergrowth. Oh, hang on. She’s separated from the herd we met earlier. Where’s her mum? The calf is still, silent, and breathing very fast. Does that mean she’s stressed?

We wander about and find some people: “Do you know anyone from the farm? There’s a lost calf.”

They call the farmer. The calf is only two-days-old and not in a good place. The farmer arrives on a quad bike rescue mission. Cheers all round.

Refuelling

Pre-FIRE
I bung some batch cooking into the office microwave. Ding!

  • Sit down at desk.
  • Triage emails.
  • Shovel in food.

So fast, I don’t even taste it.

Post-FIRE
We find a cafe. Coffee and cake you say? Okay, I reckon we’ve earned it. The weather is perfect. One of those warm, late summer days you could sit in forever.

We share some banter with the people at the next table. They’re cyclists, too. Lovely couple, we swap stories and spin yarns. I’d never have met them in my old life.

One last push

Pre-FIRE
It’s late afternoon. There’s still an email mountain to climb plus the work I was actually meant to do today. The deadline is as immovable as those cows will be in my future.

I text Mrs Accumulator to say I’ll be back after she’s gone to bed. I’m not sure I can keep going like this.

Post-FIRE
My friend says: “I’m not sure I can keep going.” The gradient hurts like a chemical burn.

I can see on the GPS that flat land is just around the bend:

“Not far now…” [Gasp]
“Keep going…” [Wheeze]
“You can do it…” [Kill me now]

My companion takes the lead. God, if he’s going to do this then so am I.

We made it! We’re cackling like eejits.

Who cares that we got to the top? Only us. We’re not setting any land speed records but we didn’t give up.

What a day: pre-FIRE vs post-FIRE

Pre-FIRE
I’m back home in the dark. The gauge on my spiritual oxygen tank hovers in the red zone.

My mind has been sand-blasted to sterility. I don’t want to talk. Which is lucky because Mrs Accumulator is trying to sleep.

What kind of life is this? I suppose I’m fortunate to have a job.

Post-FIRE
I’m back home in the sunshine with loads of energy still in the tank. My mind is buzzing and my spirits soar like a gospel choir.

I tell Mrs Accumulator about the cows. And I tell myself to remember.

I have the good fortune to live in a beautiful part of the world and have friends and family to share it with. What more do I need?

Take it steady,

The Accumulator

  1. Financial Independence Retire Early. []

Comments on this entry are closed.

  • 1 weenie September 22, 2021, 9:49 am

    Love it! That kind of day is still some years away for me – definitely something to look forward to though. Granted that my average working day doesn’t seem half as bad as yours did, which probably makes things easier as I plod along.

  • 2 Steve21020 September 22, 2021, 10:25 am

    — “I’m stuck in the meeting time forgot. Theoretically it’s about strategy. In reality, a higher-up is chucking time on a bonfire, talking about things that will never happen, because they want to feel in control.” —

    This is such a normal part of work for us that I’ve got to the point where I just laugh. Understaffed? Problems with clients? So let’s have a meeting about changing one of the logos. Maybe discuss the colour of the website. Should solve all problems, yes? Thanks boss! 🙂

  • 3 JDW September 22, 2021, 11:16 am

    Fuel for contining inspiration, thanks as ever.

    The line “I internally rage at the injustice of a September day drenched in sunshine when I’m stuck in the office.” is definitely today!
    Feeling it this week – back in the office 3 days now but still mainly on Zoom calls (purely to see some colleagues in person), in central London, sunny day, going through the motions when I would rather be in the hills or watching Surrey’s game at the Oval (rather than half-listening to a live stream. Just. Keep. Going…..

  • 4 SteveUK September 22, 2021, 11:30 am

    Even better post-FIRE when you ride an e-assist bike on the cycle ride – hills and rough tracks no longer a problem – d even bigger smiles. They can also be good for a de-stressing ride back home on pre-FIRE days. Tip: buy one of the Cycle to Work scheme whilst you’re still an employee to save tax on the purchase.

  • 5 Phillycheese September 22, 2021, 11:44 am

    Absolutely love this. And the best things in life are…not very expensive!

  • 6 MarkR September 22, 2021, 11:51 am

    “chucking time on a bonfire” = spraying coffee over the keyboard !!

  • 7 Chris September 22, 2021, 12:02 pm

    Pre-FIRE – working from home today, wife is too, daughter at nursery, sun is shining. “Let’s bunk off and go sit with coffee and split a cake, I can make up the time (literally) later”.

    Part of my pre-FIRE plan is to fight the exploitation of modern employment, when my charge out rate is 15 times my hourly rate I’m clawing some time back 🙂

    (I appreciate this may make me sound a terrible employee, but life is too short to miss out on the sun at winter approaches).

  • 8 Michelle / F&W September 22, 2021, 12:11 pm

    Love it! So much here I totally relate to.

    It’s a gorgeous day here too & the simple joy of being able to sit out in the sun with a coffee whilst reading something interesting is such a simple pleasure. And so different to life pre-FIRE.

    I have so many old colleagues ask if I miss work yet, now that it’s been three years. Whilst I miss catching up with some of my old friends there as much as I would like (down side of having worked a very long way away!) there’s nothing else I’m able to offer up when asked.

    Good to hear you are making the most of it – and even better to hear the baby calf turned out ok too 🙂

  • 9 JimJim September 22, 2021, 12:28 pm

    @TA
    Those elysian fields sound so tempting, not far until I get to them now… Jealous as hell 🙂
    JimJim

  • 10 never give up September 22, 2021, 12:34 pm

    Woohoo that sounds great! I always think we should do as many things as possible that still make us feel like kids. Riding a bike is one of the few things that makes me feel like a kid again. I literally have to stop myself from going “Wheeeee” every time I go downhill.

    I’m currently enduring a week of corporate nonsense so I’m very jealous. I’m starting to begrudge more and more looking out onto sunny days from behind a work computer.

  • 11 Ducknald Don September 22, 2021, 12:42 pm

    Yep, just got back from a twenty miler this morning. A bit early in the day for cake though.

    I’m not even retired yet but what I do have is the ability to choose whether I go on a bike ride or spend the morning coding.

  • 12 BerkshirePat September 22, 2021, 1:11 pm

    I know what you mean about wasting sunny days. We only get a certain number in our lives, and sitting inside in front of a laptop, on Teams calls or Excel-bashing seems such a waste.
    On the other hand, is there a risk that we see post-FIRE as never ending sunny days, physically and metaphorically, when the reality will be somewhat different? A sort of forward-looking nostalgia ?!
    I have just come off a call with colleagues and we were reminiscing about the good times at our various London offices – sometimes it’s good to be connected to people and to feel one is doing something important as part of a larger project, and I’ll miss that

  • 13 Jim Mcg September 22, 2021, 1:12 pm

    I’ve had quite a few days like these over the summer. Whether on my bike, or sometimes on the fairways, or sitting in a cafe on a Thursday morning with my DOH, it can suddenly strike me with piercing clarity that I can do this again tomorrow! And next week! I’ll never have to be in the office, reading a work email, in a Teams meeting or answering into some idiot again! It’s usually a fleeting moment, but the intensity of it can lift me up for hours and is something to remember on the inevitable boring dull days you can have in retirement too.

  • 14 JP September 22, 2021, 1:55 pm

    Love this post. One thing that really struck me when I gave up my full on, stressful, long hours job was being able to watch the changing seasons slowly unfold. Something I hadn’t realised I missed completely as a result of spending so many hours inside an office.

  • 15 AlwaysLearnin September 22, 2021, 2:29 pm

    Loved that! Great to see you’re thriving ‘on the other side’ too 🙂

    Thanks

  • 16 Anthony Howe September 22, 2021, 4:13 pm

    Loved this post.
    After 5 years (earlyish) retired and I’m starting to not feel guilty about sitting in the garden enjoying the September sun drinking an afternoon beer whilst I read a delightful blog post.
    I might read a book next
    Thank you.
    Keep doing it.

  • 17 Darka September 22, 2021, 4:45 pm

    Sounds great!

    I handed my notice in 5 weeks ago, and will be retiring at the end of October at the age of 52 (barely).

    Took 3 weeks before my manager spoke to me, and took until today for him to finally accept the holiday request I put in those 5 weeks ago, so that I can take my accrued holiday and leave before the end of my 3 months notice.

    Not going to miss work one single bit.

    My wife retired at the start of this month and I can’t wait!!

  • 18 Alan September 22, 2021, 5:12 pm

    E-bike, you’ll think your legs are 21 again

  • 19 BeardyBillionaireBloke September 22, 2021, 5:41 pm

    Of course you must also put an appropriate out-of-office on your work email just before you leave.
    In 2012 I used a funny quote. http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/wales/7702913.stm
    In 2015 “Not Vodafone but vodagone”
    In 2020 “Retirement is when I no longer even delete your email.”

    And you need something to put on forms for Occupation. I like Deke Thornton’s “Drift around down here. Try to stay out of jail”.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R6-LDKl3FOs

  • 20 Al Cam September 22, 2021, 5:44 pm

    Says it all – with a couple of sensible riders IMO in the comments from Jim (#13) & Pat (#12).

  • 21 Gizzard September 22, 2021, 6:09 pm

    #Darka Why kick your retirement off with annual leave you could have taken earlier? Despite almost everyone I know having done exactly the same thing, I think I’d get more satisfaction taking the time off earlier (e.g. when the weather might be nice) rather than immediately prior to never working again.

  • 22 SparkleBee September 22, 2021, 6:30 pm

    Love this !

    I am living the post-fire life now and really enjoying it. Same story, cycling and picking the days to go out and about based on weather. So flexible.. I don’t want to go back to working or an office and don’t miss any of the traumas as detailed in your pre-fire descriptions. ..

    I am crunching numbers to make sure I can refrain from returning to full time work.

  • 23 Darka September 22, 2021, 6:31 pm

    #Gizzard,

    Good question!
    The main reason was that I would prefer to leave work earlier due to some upcoming changes that I really didn’t want to go through or be part of.

    Also, I did take some holiday earlier in the year, but then with my wife retiring and saving up her leave, it made sense to time it to end of Oct.

  • 24 Erico1875 September 22, 2021, 6:43 pm

    I actually like my job. Days fly by. I still enjoy my weekends off and annual leave though.
    But it sounds a bit like a life wasted, doing something you hate right through to FIRE in your 50s

  • 25 TCHHEOE September 22, 2021, 8:00 pm

    I’m going to prefix this by saying that I’m HUGE fan of the site – and really value the articles you write. I should also admit that I’m having a bit of a FIRE wobble – think 5 years to go, and starting to ‘feel’ / worry about what RE might really mean…

    …Anyway, I really want to like this article, but… its a bit saccharine? It sort of implies that retirement is nirvana, but can that really be? I feel this sort of papers over the existential work to be addressed if one is to FIRE (…perhaps a topic for a future article?). Like how to answer the following the questions I’m asking myself… What if I (FI)RE and then find I’m lacking purpose (as you say, no one else cared that you got to the top of the hill)? What if I’ve been driven by ‘retiring from’ and not ‘retiring to’ – am I doomed to disappointment? Am I setting a bad example to the kids (when the going gets tough, tell yourself that everyone else is mad and to be rejected for your own ‘truth’)? If I retire and go on bike rides (or whatever), am I accepting that I’m not going to make a difference in the world – and should I be giving in so easily?

    Please understand, this isn’t mean to be critical. I guess I’m just interested about how you think about / dealt with the existential stuff

  • 26 Tom-Baker Dr Who September 22, 2021, 9:05 pm

    Being a keen cyclist too myself, this post really resonated with me. It’s definitely my idea of what a good post-fire day ought to be!

  • 27 Bikematt September 22, 2021, 9:47 pm

    This so resonates with me. Retired 4 y ago. Tipping point was not being able to ride as often with mates because of work. Midweek rides are great

  • 28 FI-FireFighter September 22, 2021, 10:44 pm

    @TCHHEOE I think you are in danger of overthinking it.
    I reached FI and left fulltime employment at the the same time as @TI and this post resonates with me and what I have felt/experienced since April.
    The thing you have is choice and options, to do whatever you want. So when you reach FI if its not what you were expecting or you need more purpose or fulfillment, well….go and find it.
    You have 5 years to plan and prepare, I think that’s plenty of time to set up what you feel would suit you and to get mentally prepared.
    I have seen colleagues not prepare or even really think about what’s next and when it comes they are lost.
    But the key thing is the choice is yours.
    Bad example for the kids? well mine want to emulate what I have, they see a better me without the stress and pressure of work and they see me starting my own projects with passion and excitement.
    I was sitting on my parents roof this morning, it was a glorious day here in Cornwall, I sat there for half an hour enjoying the views across the moors, it was fantastic. Then I got on with painting the outside of their house, in the sun, listening to the radio, working at my own pace. Been a great day.

  • 29 never give up September 23, 2021, 7:02 am

    @TCHHEOE
    “ If I retire and go on bike rides (or whatever), am I accepting that I’m not going to make a difference in the world”

    But TA did make a difference to the world. Instead of potentially spending three hours commuting and polluting, using energy to power computers and so on he spent the day in nature looking after his health. He even helped save a calf for crying out loud! Any day spent cycling is saving the world in my opinion. I hope his cycling top is blue and has a big red S on the front.

    The “retire to” aspect is always overblown a little in my opinion. If someone needs a boss to give them direction all the time then I guess the lack of structure post- FIRE can be a struggle. Surely that doesn’t apply to those pursuing FIRE though? If you’re interested in things, take an interest in things and are open minded to learn stuff then it will all work itself out. There’s a whole world of things to be involved with.

  • 30 SteveUK September 23, 2021, 9:03 am

    Great post and great comments; it’s good to hear that so many of us cycle for leisure (and hopefully other journeys too). Bicycles feature highly in my retirement: mending them, loaning them, helping others learn to ride, particularly those with physical and/or mental challenges, campaigning for better cycling infrastructure, promoting the benefits of e-bikes and, of course, riding them. Pleasure, purpose and fulfillment all from one activity!

  • 31 Ericp September 23, 2021, 10:15 am

    TA Write a journal.

  • 32 weenie September 23, 2021, 10:29 am

    @Erico1875 #24

    “I actually like my job. Days fly by.”

    I don’t hate my job and days do fly by for me too. But it will only take something like a new boss or colleagues you can’t work with, new nonsensical processes, unreasonable targets or company restructuring to make that job not so nice.

    I can see at some point I will have no patience dealing with other people’s incompetence and BS and tire of having to schedule my annual leave with other people.

  • 33 ZXSpectrum48k September 23, 2021, 10:33 am

    @TCHHEOE. “ If I retire and go on bike rides (or whatever), am I accepting that I’m not going to make a difference in the world”

    Statistically, you were never going to make a difference in the world. 99%+ of the population don’t make any discernible difference. So whether you work, retire or throw yourself of the nearest bridge is utterly irrelevant. In 100 years, 500 years etc, nobody will remember what we did or didn’t do. We’re just here to act as sample pool for those random few who will make a difference.

  • 34 Scott September 23, 2021, 11:51 am

    @Jim #13 – an about turn from you! Would like to hear more, perhaps a blog post due?

    Re the main article – the two sides presented are a bit extreme. If work was really that bad/inflexible, perhaps seeking a change of job a few years ago would have been a good idea. +1 on cycling in RE though.

  • 35 The Accumulator September 23, 2021, 12:25 pm

    @ Tchhheoe – it’s natural and healthy to wobble, I think. FIRE is a big life change after all, so wobbles are a sign you’re really thinking about whether this is for you. I wobbled too. But I took heart that – every time I wrote about retirement – the comments were full of people who were living it and loving it. More so, the positives they mentioned chimed with me. That told me there was little to fear but fear itself, though I accept there’s still a chance the move might not suit me – it’s only been six months. Check out the comments accompanying the links from here: https://monevator.com/fire/

    The question is not what difference are you making to the world, but what difference are you making to *your* world. A pay cheque didn’t tell me I was doing something useful. The most profound difference I can make is hyper-local – to those who love me and rely on me. Being around more makes a big difference to Mrs Accumulator (I’m told). That’s why I included the part about coming home after she’s gone to bed in the post. She’d rather have me than my money 😉

    I don’t think purpose is hard to find but it depends on how you’re wired. Some people think money is purpose. I think it’s instrumental. If your identity is bound to your job then you may find it hard. I did not find my work meaningful so it was very easy to let go. What was the equivalent of the hill in work? Some target or other. Nobody cares about that now either. I don’t think deciding to get off the office merry-go-round is ‘giving in’, though the more mischievous parts of my brain cast it like that too. It paid the bills and now they’re paid. I can certainly think of more useful things to do.

    Finally, you don’t have to RE. Get to FI and then decide.

  • 36 The Accumulator September 23, 2021, 1:03 pm

    @ Steve21020 – Exactly that! Sometimes I wondered if it was a conspiracy just to make life harder. Eventually I realised it was because they thought that was what leaders did, or they couldn’t face the real problems.

    @ JDW – I hear you. You’ll get there.

    @ Chris – it doesn’t sound like you’re a terrible employee at all. This is the reality for many.

    @ Michelle – those simple pleasures are so easily overlooked when everyone’s so concerned about making bank. Having time to just ‘be’ is another thing our society spends more time paying lip-service to, and monetising, than actually living: “Hey, team! I know you’re all really stressed, but forcing this online wellness course down your throats means I don’t have to listen to you bleating on about your mental health.”

    Agree about old friends, but now there’s time to properly catch up with them too.

    @ never give up – haha. Love it. I’m struck by how often I feel like a kid again, post-FIRE. It’s wonderful.

    @ Ducknald – sounds like the best of both worlds!

    @ BerkshirePat – I think there is a risk, and it goes that way for some. I deliberately kept my expectations on the down low because of that concern. Still, I kept reading about, and hearing from, retirees who’s only regret was they didn’t pull the plug earlier. The downside has been zero for me, so far. I still got my problems, for sure. But they’re not work-related.

    @ Jim Mcg – I get the same thing: I can’t believe I’m doing this today. And tomorrow! I hope I never take it for granted.

    @ JP – Ha yes, I got that sense of the seasons when I started working from home during lockdown. The garden office definitely beats the steel and concrete one.

    @ Anthony – Cheers! Wow, five years is a long time to shake off that guilty feeling. Funny, that’s made me realise I feel it ever so slightly too. Perhaps not so much guilt, more: ‘I feel so lucky that this can’t be right’.

    @ Beardy – Brilliant. Wish I’d thought of that.

    @ Erico – I think that’s great – finding a job you love so much you’d do it for free sounds wonderful. It didn’t happen for me but who knows what I’ll get up to in the years ahead?

    @ FI-FireFighter and SteveUK – you both nailed it! Great examples of how purpose can emerge from unexpected places.

    @ All – cheers for the great comments thread. Props to all the cyclists out there!

  • 37 The Rhino September 23, 2021, 8:49 pm

    I think this is great and hope things stay good for TA, but YMMV as they say and there are people having a wide range of different experiences off the back of RE. Jim McG, Living a FI, Finumus spring to mind. There be dragons as they say. You’re mucking about with pretty serious aspects of the human condition, meaning, status etc.

    I was thinking a balance piece might be a nice accompaniment containing links to other experiences and pointing out some of the potential pitfalls. I can’t quite remember if that’s already been done here or not, but I don’t think it has? Apologies if I’m wrong and its already been written..

  • 38 Maximus September 23, 2021, 10:57 pm

    Brilliant T(De)A – well done you! I walk rather than cycle, but it’s the same difference really. Watch out for those ponies in the next field mind…
    How about posting some photos..?

  • 39 The Investor September 23, 2021, 11:42 pm

    @The Rhino – You may recall we debated it a couple of years ago (with me all up for FI but definitely not all-in on RE):

    https://monevator.com/debating-fire-the-believer-vs-the-sceptic-vs-the-drop-out-round-1/

  • 40 The Accumulator September 24, 2021, 10:40 am

    @ The Rhino – agreed, I think there’s a horses for courses effect in play. FIRE suits me so far, but I reserve the right to flip in six months and write that balancing piece 😉

    I think you’re right it’s an experiment in the human condition, although there’s nothing natural about the way society is currently configured. We’re an adaptable species but our expectations rely heavily on prevailing social norms.

    I read a piece on the Myers-Briggs personality test yesterday and it caused me to revisit my results. My test kindly labelled me a “confident individualist”.

    I think that’s a clue as to why FIRE working out for me:

    I’m introverted, I’ve always been happy spending time on my own, my identity wasn’t tied to my job (almost the opposite), I’m not status driven, not particularly ambitious, a generalist rather than a specialist, tend to believe that my happiness relies more on intrinsic than extrinsic factors, ditto my motivation.

    Without banging on about it, I thought FIRE would probably suit my particular personality which is why I pursued it. I’m surprised though by how little doubt I feel about it now.

    I’d really like to know how quickly nagging doubts set in for those who eventually returned to work. My memory is they mostly gave it a fair crack – at least a couple of years RE before going back. But perhaps doubt set in quite quickly?

    Six months isn’t long. For all I know, I’m still on honeymoon. I’m watching the futures price for humble pie carefully 😉

  • 41 weenie September 24, 2021, 10:54 am

    “I’m introverted, I’ve always been happy spending time on my own, my identity wasn’t tied to my job (almost the opposite), I’m not status driven, not particularly ambitious, a generalist rather than a specialist, tend to believe that my happiness relies more on intrinsic than extrinsic factors, ditto my motivation.”

    You could have been describing me here, except that when I did the Myers-Briggs test, I crept slightly into the Extrovert, though really too low to be a true Extrovert.

  • 42 Jim McG September 24, 2021, 11:01 am

    “I’d really like to know how quickly nagging doubts set in for those who eventually returned to work. ”

    For me, it took about 6 to 9 months to become restless in retirement – which coincided with the winter months coming in. I retired at 51. The first 3 months were nirvana. The second 3 had me pondering what I was going to do – set up my own business, franchising, trying voluntary work. The third quarter was bringing some of the self-employment and franchising projects to a conclusion, namely that I wasn’t going to take that route. In the fourth quarter I started looking for paid employment, and found it at the end of that time.

    I think I wasn’t mentally prepared for retirement at 51 as I was made redundant. I’d made plans financially, but on nothing else. I had no peers who’d retired, my wife continued with part time working and I just couldn’t settle myself. I’d also enjoyed my job and had always enjoyed working. So I went back to work and didn’t regret it. I was made redundant again in March. I’m 57 now and feel much more mentally prepared to give the good life a go this time (along with my wife!)

  • 43 britinkiwi September 24, 2021, 11:14 am

    Thanks for this – lovely illustrations of the difference!

    @ZXSpectrum48k (33) – honestly? I can think of lots of things where I’ve made a difference. Small, perhaps, but its there. The fact that none will remember me in 500 years time is a different measure at the extreme end of the bell curve. There is also the concept that we all add a little to human potential and outcomes though unsure of source (Matt Ridley perhaps? Either Rational Optimist or How Innovation Works?)

    @TA (et al) love riding my hard tail ebike in and out 13km to work and I’m looking forward to the 900 meters descent tomorrow down the Dun Mountain Trail….and looking forward to many more summer rides come RE in Jan!

    @TA (40) Totally agree! Very much introvert here and Mrs britinkiwi worried that I’ll spend all day buried in a book (SF&F) or on the PC come the RE day…….

  • 44 Rosario September 24, 2021, 12:06 pm

    Fantastic! Much of the article and the comments resonate with me. I am, unfortunately, rather committed to the “meeting which time forgot” currently but with aspirations to put a stop to my involvement within the next 5 years.

    I always find it interesting when people rally against the RE part. Does it have some foundation even if that’s just for them, or is it a projection of their own fears onto others?
    “I couldn’t just sit there doing nothing for 30, 40, 50 years!”
    Well I don’t know any retired people that actually do that. My experience is that retirement gives people time for their family, hobbies or to view employment for its benefit rather than for only what you give to it.

    As a species the industrialised, more recently commercialised, way of living has only been the way we live for a relatively short space of time. I don’t at all agree with the protestant work ethic angle and those that argue we are incapable of living without the structure or “reward” that offers. Indeed if you think about it there are many example of those on the fringes of society that live without that. From the Downton Abbey types to Artists, Crofters, Farmers and those that live in small tribes all over the Planet. There are various groups that don’t conform to a 9-5 and live arguable more rewarding lives.

    The issue is striking whatever balance best suits the individual, not that we’ll wither away unless we’re serving some “work” God. There’s more than enough interesting stuff going on in the world to fill several lifetimes, how boring would it be if we can’t see beyond our current routine.

  • 45 Nebilon September 24, 2021, 1:06 pm

    Great article to read while catching a quick bite to eat after a 90 minute interview for a promotion (to fill permanently a role I’m currently acting up in) and before diving back into a nightmare final push to finalise documents for a key project. Particularly since I am about 95% committed to retiring next June, just after I turn 58…. I’m not sure about cycling, I would prefer long hikes on foot, but it’s the same principle, and your description is pushing me ever closer to 100%!

  • 46 Al Cam September 24, 2021, 2:26 pm

    @ZX (#33):
    Your comment reminded me of this extract from a (IIRC, 1981 BBC) interview with Dr Richard Beeching: Did he mind posterity remembering him as a mad axeman? Not in the least he said cheerily. “Most people aren’t remembered at all”

  • 47 SemiPassive September 24, 2021, 3:09 pm

    Another mountain biker here, although I can’t stand road cycling which seems to be deeply unpleasant due to traffic unless you’re just going down very quiet lanes to link up offroad sections.
    No e bike yet, its cheating. But I might justify one in my late 50s or past 60. It is annoying when someone passes you on one without even breaking sweat 🙂
    Anyway, it can be a cheap, fun and healthy hobby once you have all the gear, as long as you avoid reading magazines and websites about new bikes and gear…

    Good idea buying a state of the art bike while still working on the Cycle To Work scheme if that is still around. Nobody gets a gold Rolex these days, (a crap mug perhaps) so you might as well grab your own tax efficient physical memento in the last year or two of work.

  • 48 Vanguardfan September 24, 2021, 4:37 pm

    I don’t know if anyone else has raised this (I haven’t read every comment), but I find that most of my friends are still frantically busy with work, so trying to pin them down for lovely long bike rides, walks, whatever, just isn’t happening for me.

    @jimmcg – is it really 6 years since you retired first time? Wow.

  • 49 Tom-Baker Dr Who September 24, 2021, 5:18 pm

    @ SemiPassive – I’ve got the same idea of using the Cycle To Work scheme just before I quit work to get a state-of-the-art bicycle. Instead of keeping the bike myself though, I would give it to my son. I’ve already got a Dawes Galaxy that has been my faithful companion on the daily commute to work (a 30-mile round trip) and also on many memorable adventures. For years I have been doing all the bike maintenance myself. I have even built the wheels from scratch using good quality time, hubs, and spokes. You end up learning a fair bit of bicycle mechanics this way! I would never retire Boudicca 😉

  • 50 ZXSpectrum48k September 24, 2021, 5:37 pm

    @britwinki. I just think worrying that by deciding to retire early, you decide not to make a difference to the world, makes a huge set of assumptions. It assumes that work is worthwhile but retirement is not. It assumes that some things we do have fundamental value while other things we do don’t. All sounds rather subjective. It even assumes we have the ‘free will’ to make these decisions. And yes, zoom out far enough, and the vast majority of us are forgotten. Just retire or don’t.

  • 51 FireSoon? September 24, 2021, 5:39 pm

    @Those contemplating C2W to buy a bike just before quitting work. Take care to check the rules for the retained value of the bike you buy. You will owe the monthly payments to your employer ~and~ the final retained value, which is actually quite high for a few years after purchase. The rules are available on HMRC website.

  • 52 FireSoon? September 24, 2021, 5:41 pm

    PS, thanks TA for another fantastic post, and to the commenters BTL who add still more wisdom to this topic.

  • 53 SteveUK September 24, 2021, 5:53 pm

    For a C2W scheme, it is worth checking out http://www.greencommuteinitiative.uk, they have a good reputation (and I’m not sure there is a large payment at the end).

    Re ebikes as ‘cheating’: this has been shown to be nonsense (except for illicit use in a cycle race!). They enables more journeys for more people to be practical to cycle. Research shows that even if a little less effort is put in when cycling (e-assist is only provided when you pedal), most people cycle more often and for longer distances so end up getting more exercise. You can also choose what level of assistance you want/need so its under your control.

  • 54 Tom-Baker Dr Who September 24, 2021, 5:53 pm

    @ FireSoon? – With my employer, you’ve got to pay the full outstanding amount when you leave plus a small amount to transfer the ownership of the bicycle from the employer to yourself. It’s still worthwhile financially because all this money will come from your gross salary rather than after taxes. Unless the government changed the rules…

  • 55 FireSoon? September 24, 2021, 6:04 pm

    Here are the values from HMRC’s site:
    Age of cycle Original price < £500 Original price £500+
    1 year 18% 25%
    18 months 16% 21%
    2 years 13% 17%
    3 years 8% 12%
    4 years 3% 7%
    5 years Negligible 2%
    6 years and over Negligible Negligible

    The specific mention of using the scheme to buy an expensive e-bike immediately before quitting makes this a significant factor IMO. I have used the scheme several times and at the end of six years paid my employer a nominal £1 to take ownership but HMRC does check the rules are being applied.

  • 56 Tom-Baker Dr Who September 24, 2021, 6:30 pm

    @ FireSoon?- I see! They have indeed changed the rules. It makes much less sense getting a nice bicycle with the cycle-to-work scheme just before quitting work then. I won’t even bother considering this anymore. It’s actually fair, by the way, as the C2W scheme is really meant to be used by people commuting to work, not as a replacement for a gold watch on retirement 😉 Thanks for letting us know.

  • 57 britinkiwi September 24, 2021, 9:17 pm

    @ZXSpectrum48k – ah, see where you are coming from (I think) but I hope and plan to continue making a (small) difference post RE too. Volunteering and so on…..

    @SemiPassive – it might be cheating but when the old knees can’t hack the commute anymore on a road bike the ebike is your salvation!

    Anyway, it’s a lovely sunny day and I’ve 900m of mountain to bike down – hopefully without ending up on the local orthopaedic ward, which would be awfully embarrassing, as I work there…….

  • 58 SteveUK September 24, 2021, 9:41 pm

    FireSoon?
    The Green Commute Initiative C2W scheme is a bit different (see their website for details). My understanding is that the salary sacrifice arrangement with your employer has to last at least 3 months (full repayment to the employer being made by the end of this arrangement – all as a salary sacrifice), the loan agreement (which costs nothing except £1 at the end) with GCI usually lasts for the 6 years. You’d have to ask GCI whether its OK for the first part of the 6 years to be as an employee and a later part as a retiree.

  • 59 The Accumulator September 25, 2021, 1:16 pm

    @ Weenie – you could be an ambivert – someone who occupies the mid-ground between intro- and extravert. I recommend Quiet by Susan Cain if you haven’t read it already. Like the Myers-Briggs test it helped me accept there’s no such thing as ‘normal’ – we’ve all got different personalities and being introverted doesn’t mean there’s something wrong with you. (By which I mean me.)

    @ Jim McG – I was hoping you’d respond. That’s interesting – so I’m coming into the danger zone now then 🙂
    In a sense, it seems like you had unfinished business to see to before you could happily call it a day. I’m glad Mrs SHMD is joining you. That will surely make a big difference this time time around. I *still* think you should do a SHMD update.

    @ Britinkiwi – this is how we introverts recharge the batteries! Maybe promise you’ll take Vitamin D supplements in lieu of playing outside 😉

    @ Rosario – brilliantly put! The Parable of the Mexican Fisherman comes to mind when reading your comment.

    @ Nebilon – I feel for you. Next June will come round in a flash!

    @ Al Cam – love it.

    @ SemiPassive – many is the OAP who nearly destroyed my confidence cruising past me without breaking sweat – until I realised they’re on an ebike. Sustrans routes are great for leafy lane cycling.

    @ Tom-Baker – sounds like you’re riding a chariot not a bike! That’s cheating 😉

    @ ZXSpectrum48K – where have you got to with your retirement thoughts? Has your sabbatical experience last year moved you closer to the door?

  • 60 Al Cam September 25, 2021, 11:04 pm

    @TA:
    Yup, that was a pretty memorable exchange with Dr B – and miles better than my absolutely dreadful pun at #20 above!

    BTW +1 for the SHMD update suggestion. I’d really like to understand his take on his second redundancy – especially now that he has now reached that 6 months milestone or “danger zone” as you christened it above

  • 61 Jim McG September 26, 2021, 10:15 am

    Thanks for the positive feedback on my long dormant blog, although I have kept the domain 🙂 I’ve written a couple of draft updates on retirement since I was made redundant, so I’ll review my thoughts and post soon. Cheers.

  • 62 Ownitall September 27, 2021, 11:02 am

    I’m a couple of months behind TA in my journey so read Jim McG’s experience with interest as the colder months approach. The summer has been a blast with my own equivalent of cycling up hills and saving calves.

    I’ve also made some lifestyle changes (diet, exercise) that previously did not get the dedication and which now feel like they will stick as they are beginning to become habitual rather than requiring special dedication. So if I follow Jim McG’s path and return to the other side I hope they’ll not be reversed…well its a bit more than hope, as I can now choose a future employment on the basis that it wouldn’t result in compromising those good changes made.

    Finally, the discussion on making a difference to the world resonates. I think it takes a while for the cleansing of corporate style metrics to recede from the forefront of what is making a difference. ZXSpectrum’s point about the few being remembered to make a difference is true from a historic perspective, but as others have said there are many ways to make small differences either to one’s own or others’ worlds. These differences could be social, environmental, philanthropic, making kinder choices as you have the time, etc. Add them up and they soon mount up. I can certainly think of folks who have made a huge difference to my life, sometimes unwittingly, but those acts on their own are unlikely to go down in history.

  • 63 Dividend Power September 27, 2021, 5:48 pm

    I like the contrast between pre-FIRE and post-FIRE. I think most people prefer post-FIRE.

  • 64 Keith September 27, 2021, 7:15 pm

    Going back a week to your previous weekend roundup, which mentioned Adam Tooze, some may find this podcast interesting:
    https://podcasts.apple.com/gb/podcast/talking-politics/id974670140?i=1000536338598

  • 65 The Accumulator September 30, 2021, 11:42 am

    @ Ownitall – Glad to hear it’s going well. I’ve had the same experience of being able to turn my mind to aspects of life that had been neglected. It’s fun and rejuvenating to have the chance to grow in new directions.

    @ Keith – cheers for the link. I thought The Deluge by Adam Tooze was fantastic so I’ll listen with interest.

  • 66 The Accumulator October 1, 2021, 11:07 am

    Great suggestion, Keith. Really enjoyed the podcast.