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Hetty Green and the timeless appeal of market timing

Hetty Green and the timeless appeal of market timing post image

I have long had a crush on Hetty Green. Not a romantic one: Green lived a century ago, and not even my imagination is that deluded.

Rather the type of infatuation that kids have for their favourite Harry Potter character or that billionaire tech bros have for Ayn Rand.

Kind of fun to think about, but a fantasy. Like a Patronus charm, or a government that moves fast and breaks things – regulations, democracies, good taste – without causing lots of collateral damage.

Hetty Green: Proto degenerate trader (Image: Wikipedia)

With Hetty Green the impossible dream on offer is the mastery of market timing. Of selling your assets when euphoria is at a peak, and then buying back cheap when others are in despair.

It sounds so easy on paper.

Buy low sell high!

And two-way market timing is steroids to your hypothetical returns on a spreadsheet too.

But in practice most people who try market timing might as well be waving a wand over a toad.

The gilded age of market timing

Hetty Green though was the first lady of market timing.

Quite literally.

Because if you’ve heard of Hetty Green (1834-1916) then you’ll also know what the papers called her:

The Witch of Wall Street.

Which honestly isn’t doing my crush any harm.

I mean, while it’s certainly sexist – hailing from a time when any woman making decisions on Wall Street seemed a phantasm – the Witch of Wall Street epithet is also kind of, well, wicked.

But the bigger point is that any female investors were rare back then. So one looming so large in the public’s imagination in the age of Robber Barons was unprecedented.

Be still my beating heart!

Fortunately my goth (/emo) phase pre-dated my investing, so I didn’t know as I mainlined The Cure anything about widow Henrietta’s all-black garb and her sombre hats festooned in black ostrich feathers.

And I certainly wouldn’t have understood how original her contrarian thinking was.

I’ll have what he’s not having

You see Green’s mystique wasn’t simply down to a wardrobe Robert Smith or Billie Eilish would die for.

It was also thanks to how ‘the richest woman in America’ got that way.

Which – supposedly – was by appearing in Wall Street in the midst of market crashes like some gusseted Grim Reaper, hoovering up stock certificates from desperate and over-extended speculators, and then floating back out of town to return to her lair to wait for the next bear market.

A deeper reading of her life shows this to be nonsense – Green kept a permanent desk at a New York bank from where she conducted her extended financial affairs –  but the image still packs a punch.

And the gist of it is true.

Many decades before Warren Buffett was being greedy when others were fearful, Green reportedly said:

“There is no great secret in fortune making. All you do is buy cheap and sell dear, act with thrift and shrewdness, and be persistent”.

And the historical records agree that Green did regularly buy when there was blood on the streets, to quote Nathan Rothschild, another battlefield-raven of an investor.

Magical thinking and market timing

For example Hetty scored a big early win by loading up on ‘greenbacks’ – a novel form of US government debt created by Abraham Lincoln to fund the Civil War effort.

When other investors dumped the paper for gold, Green was a buyer at 40-50 cents on the dollar. She profited mightily when it became clear that the US government would stand behind its obligations.

Her life story is full of such counter-cyclical trading.

But what is less understood about Green – and which I’ll touch on below – is that this legendary market timer actually rarely sold.

Green certainly bought when other investors were on their uppers. But she bought-to-hold.

And here we have a key insight into market timing, and how not to do it.

In, out, shaken all about

Because one of the massive problems with market timing, at least if understood as trying to get out at a top – or even when you fear you’re only halfway to the bottom – is someday you must get back in again.

And evidence and common sense suggests that while you might be skilled or lucky once, to expect to beat the market twice in a row with great timing smacks of hubris.

But buying cheap in a crash and then tucking it away?

While not short of its own problems – such as lousy returns on the cash set aside while you wait for a crash, perhaps for years – such a strategy is at least closer to investing than trading.

Which, again, is not to say you’ll do better than a passive investor who just pound-cost averages in more money regardless.

Indeed in a superb post for the ages, blogger Nick Maggiulli once showed how even God – presumed here to be a perfect market-timer – would usually fail to beat an investor who simply socks away more money on a schedule.

How come?

Well, waiting for a buyable dip as the market races upwards has an opportunity cost. Your cash usually isn’t compounding at anything like the same rate of return as shares.

Worse, any crash that eventually does come often won’t make up the difference – assuming you even have perfect knowledge of the best moment to buy such a dip.

Which – spoiler alert – you don’t.

Against that, the Dow Jones Industrial Average was in the low 100s in 1916, the year Hetty Green died.

It touched 45,000 in December 2024.

Which is to say the US stock market at least has always eventually recovered – and thus has always eventually bailed out a buy-and-hold investor.

Avoiding crashes with your market timing efforts might feel good in the moment. But missing out on big long-term gains will kill you.

Mistiming en masse

I won’t say there’s nobody taking their whole portfolios in and out of equities on a rinse-and-repeat path to riches.

But if there is then they are hiding their talents – and the resultant fortunes – under many bushels.

Certainly there’s not many. I can’t recall ever reading research suggesting market timing delivered any excess returns for so-called retail investors write large. (That’s commoners like you and me).

On the contrary, Googling reveals plenty of research suggesting bad timing costs us dearly.

Investing even has special phrases like the ‘behaviour gap’ to flag how private investors make return-sapping decisions by trying to time when they invest their money where.

You can’t even pay a professional to do it

But yes, some small number of individuals may have the gift of market timing.

As I said above, you’ll soon find out if that’s you if you try.

Enjoy your imminent riches!

Indeed you might think anyone so blessed would quickly become a professional investor in order to truly profit from their rare skill.

Alas – evidence of wonderful market timing by professional investors is notably absent, too.

As a group, most go-anywhere hedge funds have chalked up mediocre returns for years. Their managers blamed everything from irrational markets to low rates to index fund distortions for their woes. But if they really could market time then they’d have stayed 100% in US large cap stocks, feasting on the gains.

More likely they long ago judged such companies had become too popular and paid the price.

Another case in point are tactical-allocation funds. Their whole raison d’être is to judiciously get in and out of different asset classes at the right time.

But Morningstar recently reported that:

When compared against the average fund in the moderate-allocation category, tactical asset-allocation funds have lagged by more than 2 percentage points per year, on average, over the past five years.

They’ve trailed by roughly twice that amount when compared against a simple portfolio composed of 60% stocks and 40% bonds and rebalanced annually.

These funds are very well-resourced outfits where pay and bonuses depend on getting such calls right. Yet they can’t do it well enough to beat a 60/40 portfolio.

So do you feel lucky, punter?

I read this week the chairman of Ruffer – a multi-asset allocation fund – trying to spin poor performance of late as some sort of rallying cry.

To paraphrase: equity markets are too high, and we know because we got out two years ago and since then we’ve lagged badly and this always happens to us.

Um guys… that’s not a feature, it’s a bug.

Tips for would-be market timers

I like Ruffer by the way, and I read their reports because I like to hear what they have to say.

But the point is market timing is much, much harder than it looks.

My best market timing advice to readers would be don’t do it. Our house guidance is to invest passively into index funds and ignore the noise for good reason.

Both evidence and observation suggests to me most people will do worse in trying to strategically juggle their asset allocations around, whether they’re doing it by maths, intuition, or chicken entrails.

Market timing can also be a gateway to other bad behaviours. Stuff like over-trading, or focusing on short-term wins versus the long-term gains that really drive returns.

All that said, Monevator is a broad church and I’m a naughty active investor myself who absolutely does shift my allocation around depending on my mood swings reading of the economy and the markets.

And while I have many faults, I’m not too much of a hypocrite.

What’s more there are clearly some successful funds – and a few legendary investors – who do employ timing to some degree.

Famed US fund manager Stanley Druckenmiller hasn’t had a single down year in decades. He obviously didn’t achieve that by sitting on his hands and reading Jack Bogle.

So if someone wants to try market timing, why not?

Again, a hugely attractive trait of investing is that it is scored.

Provided you’re keeping meticulous records, the markets will soon let you know if your timing experiments are costing you (very likely) or adding value (at least until they don’t…).

Ideally run the experiment when you’re young and any painful lessons won’t do much damage – and while there’s still time for a lucrative career switch to The City should you discover you do have edge.

I did it my way

Here’s a few personal hints about market timing from my decades as a wannabe Hetty Green:

Have a plan in advance. Suddenly shifting from passive investing to becoming a market timer in the midst of a crash isn’t being strategic. It’s panicking.

Don’t go all-in or all-out of equities. Some market strategies advocate for it. I say be humble. Warren Buffett is a legend for letting his cash pile-up when markets are richly-valued. But Buffett doesn’t sell all his shares. And neither you or I are Warren Buffett.

Focus on the egregious anomalies. The CAPE ratio is 20% above its long-run average? Who cares. It could stay that way for a decade – or forever. But Japan in the 1980s, Dotcom stocks in 1999, or – whisper it – inflation-linked bonds in the near-zero interest rate era? Crazy. You could have at least halved your stake and been soberly prudent in doing so.

Always remember you have to get back in. Don’t wait for a perfect checklist of signals that the bear market has bottomed. You should be buying long before that. I’m always legging in and out of positions when I’m (for my sins) trying to curb the worst damage of a falling market. It’s almost a strategy of rearranging deckchairs on the Titanic – saving a percentage point here and there. Sounds crap, until you recall that on the Titanic there weren’t enough lifeboats, and the markets are hardly any kinder.

Watch momentum. I’m not a trend follower, but there is evidence that big breaks in momentum can signal turning points in market direction. Obviously it’s not easy or everyone would be doing it, but you should at least read up on the basics about 200-day moving averages and the like if you’re dabbling.

Clinging to quality versus the dash for trash. I did a bit of useful reshuffling during the Global Financial Crisis. I sold my bank holdings early, and kept buying other equities as the market fell and bottomed out. But when the rally came, my portfolio was initially left behind. Why? Because I’d loaded up on safer higher-quality stocks. Yet what recovers first in a new bull market is often whatever junky stocks didn’t go bust in the downturn but were priced like they would. Once more with feeling: this game is not easy!

I could continue but my co-blogger The Accumulator will put out a contract out on me. So that’s enough off-messaging for one day.

Market timing: unnecessary and insufficient

Of course in a long career every professional will get market timing calls right now and then.

If they’re able to then get lots of publicity for it, doing so might make their name as a market sage for life. The financial media isn’t known for rigorous accounting or counterfactual thinking.

But we’re about taking charge of our futures here on Monevator, and this is your own money at stake.

Your financial freedom, your early retirement, or your kids’ future.

And guess what? You don’t need to make a name for yourself as the person who called a crash right once and then filled their funds with client money for years on the back of it.

Rather, you need decent returns compounded over multiple decades to reach your financial goals.

Market timing mayhem is more likely to be a pitfall than a boost on such a journey.

To give one example: selling out in a bear market and then failing to buy back in before the market redoubles will permanently impair your portfolio – or even worse your appetite for any investment at all.

The most damaged traders are the once-burned market timers who subsequently sit in cash forever.

It’s not easy being Green

Again: most people will do best with a sensible financial plan that doesn’t rely on luck or genius.

Read our passive investing guide and have at it.

But if you must try market timing, I’d aim to be more like Hetty Green and less like your favourite social media huckster or YouTube trading guru.

Look to be an active buyer of risk assets when markets are down, say, but aim to then hold indefinitely.

Shift towards value or momentum at the margin. But don’t move in and out of markets wholesale.

And get some funereal black for your wardrobe.

Because even with this more modest approach to market timing there’s a strong chance you’re going to need it.

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No Cat Food retirement portfolio Year 2: withdrawal rate strategy is go [Members]

No Cat Food retirement portfolio Year 2: withdrawal rate strategy is go [Members] post image

Year two approaches for our model retirement portfolio. Time for our intrepid decumulators to see how much corn they have available in the financial grain silos for the forthcoming year.

In an attempt to enjoy a higher yield, we’re not going to farm our portfolio using the traditional sustainable withdrawal rate (SWR) method.

This article can be read by selected Monevator members. Please see our membership plans and consider joining! Already a member? Sign in here.
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Our Weekend Reading logo

What caught my eye this week.

Nobody asked for it and now it’s here – the new Monevator shop is open, offering in-joke themed investing T-shirts and vaguely punny sweatshirts to all.

Perhaps you’ve already spotted Monevator members striding about town sporting fancy wares like this:

Yes, those cool cats got early access. Thanks to everyone who bought something and so beta-tested the new store for us.

Now to repeat what I said to them, being a Monevator member is by far the best way to support the site. The margins on digital products are unbeatable – after the taxman has taken his share most of the money goes to us. This helps to keep the lights on and us publishing, week after week.

In particular, please don’t buy anything from the shop if you think there’s a chance you’ll return it. The margins are terrible and returns will wipe them out. We’re only really doing this for strategic brand-building mindshare capture mutual fun.

There’s an FAQ. Our merch is made by print-on-demand giant Printful, and all payments are securely handled by the globe-spanning Shopify.

Finally, you’ll also find a digital bookshop (it links to Amazon) of our 24 favourite investing books.

Hope to see you at an investing conference or under a Canary Wharf skyscraper – or failing that at the gym – in a Monevator hoodie soon!

Have a great weekend.

[continue reading…]

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FIRE-side chat: income isn’t the only obstacle

FIRE-side chat logo

By their own admission, today’s interviewee is straight from the high-earner IT professional FIRE central casting department. But as we’ll be reminded once again, everyone faces obstacles and Rich has had to overcome an early property debacle and some very difficult family planning challenges in their journey to financial independence.

A place by the FIRE

Hello Rich! How do you feel about taking stock of your financial life today?

Thanks for having me, Monevator team!

How old are you?

My wife and I are in our early 50s.

Whereabouts do you live and what’s it like there?

We moved north of London a few years back mainly because we wanted space for a kitchen garden.

My wife is a keen gardener, growing loads of vegetables and fruit especially during the summer. I’m a keen cook, so it all works out!

When do you consider you achieved Financial Independence and why?

I’m afraid this is going to be one of those stories of “how on earth can someone in IT earning six-figures become Financially Independent and Retire Early? It’s a mystery!”

I consider that I became FI some time in 2020. I haven’t retired yet, but may do so in the near future.

My wife is also working, but she enjoys her job more. We expect her to continue to do it part-time even after we both nominally retire.

Assets: a millionaire next door 

What is your current net worth?

Total net worth excluding our house is £1.7 million. Of that, the pension is just under a million, ISA is about £300,000, and our general investing account (GIA) is about £350,000. It’s almost all invested in whole market funds and ETFs.

I favour Vanguard VWRL/VWRP and VAFTGAG in the ISA and GIA. For my pension – which doesn’t offer Vanguard funds – I have some Blackrock iShares ETFs, chosen to reflect roughly a whole market index.

We have about £50,000 in cash or equivalents. That’s in savings accounts and premium bonds. I’m trying to build up the cash position to the point where we will have three years of spending, and to have something to invest when there’s a downturn in the market.

Those figures are from 1 February 2025. I may look back on these numbers with nostalgia. The man in the White House and his Nazty little sidekick are running round the factory stripping out the wires and copper pipes for scrap. I fear they’re going to break something important soon.

Approximately 80% of our net worth – including the house – is in tax-sheltered accounts like the ISA, pension, and primary residence. The other 20% pays low thousands per year in dividend tax, and one day will pay only 18% or 24% capital gains tax. I’ll only pay the basic rate on my pension when I draw it down.

I call these ‘middle-class benefits’.

Some people claim our welfare state is in trouble, and sure it is if you’re poor, disabled or ill.

But isn’t it great that the NHS is World Class, our Army is Fighting Fit ready for the war in Europe, our roads and railways are immaculate, and we still have money left over to help a middle-aged man on a six-figure salary?

What’s your main residence like? Do you own or rent it?

Before I was married I bought my first flat, a leasehold, at the beginning of the 2000s. It was a disaster from the very start. I made every mistake you can make!

I bought it with a mortgage from my bank without considering the mortgage market or even knowing that was a thing. I locked myself into a fixed interest rate – 8.5% – for three years as interest rates were falling. I bought expensive monthly payment protection cover. I used the solicitor that the estate agent recommended. I bid the full asking price. Then after I moved in, I found the flat had noisy neighbours so it was barely habitable.

And those weren’t even the worst things that happened!

A few months after I moved in, the leasehold (‘fleecehold’) for the property was sold to an outright conman. He immediately started increasing the ground rent and piling on demands for bills to repair this and that. Needless to say, no builder was ever seen.

I lived there about a year, rented it out for a bit, and then after a couple of years I tried to sell. Every mistake I’d made when buying now came back to bite me. The original solicitor hadn’t bothered with any of the council searches you’re supposed to do, and had missed that there was some kind of dangerous structure order on the whole building. Even without that, the flat wasn’t worth the full price I’d paid and the estate agent advised me to knock £10,000 off. It ended up selling for even less – it was quite an achievement to lose money on London property at that time.

But the biggest problem was the new leasehold landlord who wouldn’t provide the documentation buyers need to prove that I’d paid all the baseless demands for money. Instead he tried to use this as leverage to force me to sell the flat to him. All perfectly legal apparently.

I was very, very lucky in the end. The buyer was as naive as me and instructed his solicitor to buy my flat anyway without the documentation from the landlord and ignoring the council order. So I got rid of it, probably £25,000 down in the end.

Checking now – that flat’s a rental and has not been sold since. At least the building hasn’t collapsed.

This put me off home ownership for quite a long time. But after I got married and we moved out of London, we finally got sick of renting and moving every year and we bought again.

A house! Freehold! Arranged using an independent mortgage broker!

Given that this is an interview with someone who has achieved Financial Independence, it sounds like we’ve hit a turning point in the story…

Yes, I was starting to educate myself about money and freedom at this point and I was determined to pay the mortgage off.

As well as my unjustified but hopefully understandable fear of owning a house, I have a much larger horror at being in debt to anyone.

Our garden is one of those very long and quite narrow ones which are so common in the UK. The plot of the house and garden is actually a 7:1 rectangle.

In the first few months of living there I calculated how much of the garden was notionally mine. Just the deposit I’d put down on the house to start with. I marked it out on the fence. And saw I owned the sun deck and a small shed at the bottom of the garden.

Everything else felt like a big black hole of debt. I suppose if all else failed I could live in the shed, but I’m not sure my wife – or the bank – would go along with it.

I wasn’t able to overpay the mortgage for the first year – more on this later – and what you pay in the beginning is almost all eaten by interest, so the mark on the garden fence moved only a little at first.

But with determination, working very hard in a better paying job, living modestly, and putting every spare pound into overpaying the mortgage, I willed that mark on the fence to move along. I ended up paying off the whole mortgage in a snip under eight years.

My bank couldn’t transfer the final payment to the mortgage company online so I had to go into the branch. The woman who was helping me to do it asked me what it was for. When she found out I was paying off my mortgage, she straight-up asked me when I was going to buy a second house, since obviously I should do that now. I think my gurning face told her that wasn’t something I was considering.

With the house paid off and no debts at all, I was now free to go for FIRE for real. We still live modestly and every spare pound goes into the stock market.

Do you consider your home an asset, an investment, or something else?

Why isn’t ‘problem’ one of the options?!

It’s somewhere to live, and that should always be the most important thing. It’s always trouble, this and that breaking down and needing to be fixed.

But with my financial head on, the answer is it’s neither an asset nor an investment. Unless you own two of them in which case my advice would be to sell the one you’re not living in and invest the money into the stock market.

Nvidia have bathrooms in their offices, but as far as I recall they’ve never tried to call me up to fix a toilet that started leaking.

Earning: well-paid but not so rewarding

What’s your job?

I work in IT and earn about £150,000.

Does my job spark joy? No.

If you type my father’s 1980s salary into one of those online inflation calculators, then it was similar to mine at the same age. (Of course not including his gold-plated Defined Benefit pension.)

My father drove his company car to a large private office every day. His secretary, who had an office of her own, kept his diary, dealt with interoffice memos, and typed up his letters. He was responsible for factory safety across the whole UK in a particularly dangerous heavy industry. He had a budget, but otherwise management stayed out of his way and he did his job as a respected professional, setting his own direction, with a medium-sized department of other professionals working under him.

At the end of an eight-hour day he went home to a five-bed house in the countryside.

No one will be crushed under hundreds of tons of steel roller if I don’t do my job well, but it’s still important for The Company, being a vital link that enables sales in the hundreds of millions of dollars each year.

Yet I sit in the second bedroom of my two-bed semi.

‘IT’ can sound a bit nebulous. What do you actually do?

The first thing in the morning is to check if customers raised new tickets and firefight those. Then, after triaging hundreds of emails and replying to what I can, there’s a ‘gamified’ ticketing system that sorts issues into ones that must be completed in this ‘sprint’.

The other guy who was working on this resigned and I only got the budget to hire his replacement last month so I’m training someone up in my spare time. If the training works out, we might have two-thirds of the staff needed to provide round the clock customer cover, assuming neither of us goes on holiday, ever.

The latest wheeze is The Company threatening to introduce ‘stand-up’ meetings to make us more ‘agile’. Each day we’ll have to appear on a video call at a certain time and discuss which tickets we’ll work on that day.

The job effectively doesn’t have fixed hours. It’s very often the case that I’m answering emails or chat messages at both 9am and 10pm on the same day. It’s not full-time 13-plus hours a day – there are often times when I’m waiting for hours with nothing much to do. But I need to be ready to jump in when whatever was blocking me gets unblocked.

I do realise that I don’t have it so bad. I have a job, I work at home, I have a house and a lovely wife, a big salary, and I’m well off. Many people work much harder for less money. Those factory workers would probably be Deliveroo drivers today, with no job security at all and working for a fraction of the wage.

I worry a lot for the younger generation as things seem to be headed only in one direction.

Not to be rude, but if it’s such a grind and you’re FI then why don’t you leave?

I’ve been asking myself that. Part of it is that I’ll miss the people I work with, who are all great. By leaving I’d be making them do the work, since you can be sure The Company will panic but won’t hire anyone to replace me.

Part of it is a severe case of OMY – that’s ‘One More Year’.

Another year of work means I could save another £80,000, along with compounding my existing investments. That’s a few thousand extra every year in retirement.

Writing it down makes staying seem even less compelling.

Do you have any sources of income besides your main job?

Back in the day I used to own some niche community websites, running Google AdWords to generate income. They earned altogether probably £2,000-£4,000 each year, but it was hardly passive income as you have to deal with spammers and all kinds of malign actors.

After paying half of the income in tax, you’re making so little that it’s not worth the trouble. I closed them all down in the early 2010s.

Did pursuing FIRE get in the way of your career?

I found that becoming Financially Independent while working has a downside that no one talks about…

…you can become an asshole.

I’ve struggled a little bit with this. The reality is that when The Company does something stupid – and it’s a big company, so it does something stupid almost every day – you can tell everyone it is stupid without serious consequences. But doing that frequently makes you an asshole, and a bore.

I’m trying to make sure that if I’m going to be an asshole, it’s only to senior management, only very infrequently for the few things that really matter, and only if doing so will practically help others. And it should go without saying, but never to act like an asshole with juniors, peers, or immediate managers.

Spending and saving: putting it into perspective

What’s your annual spending? How has this changed over time?

In 2023 we together spent under £40,000. That was up a lot on 2022, which was under £30,000.

I haven’t done the sums for 2024 yet but I expect it’s under £40,000 again.

We don’t live frugally or have a budget, but we’re not big spenders. We have one rather old small car. We’re both fantastic cooks, and find it’s more fun to cook than going to a restaurant. When we go on holiday, which we do several times a year, it’s always to places where we know people and can stay at their houses.

That is a lot more fun than going somewhere you don’t know anyone and have to stay in a hotel. Or a beach resort, which I absolutely hate.

I don’t believe it’s ever come up before in a FIRE-side chat, but there was one large obstacle we faced, in life as well as financially. We had IVF to try to have children.

IVF is a grubby experience for the man. If you’ve never ‘donated’ from a single bed in a dimly-lit side room off a hospital corridor, you’re lucky. It has little to recommend it.

But it’s much worse for the woman, weeks of pain and indignity. Starting with self-administered daily injections to swell your ovaries with an unnatural harvest of eggs. Then you’re off to hospital for the first time. A large needle is inserted into your ovaries under general anaesthetic. A week or two later you return for the doctor to manually insert the embryos. Repeat the whole thing for four cycles.

Usually these IVF stories end with “but it was all worth it for our rosy-cheeked baby girls”. But I have to tell you the actual statistics are not so rosy. The chances of IVF succeeding are less than fifty/fifty for a 35-40 year old woman, and they drop precipitously after that.

Ours didn’t succeed.

So what now? We are happily blessed with many nephews and nieces, and one grand-niece. It’s a joy when we visit them or they visit us. And – to bring this back on financial track – their aunt and uncle will be helping them out with ISAs and house deposits as they get older. One day – hopefully in the very distant future – they’ll get to split whatever remains when we’ve shuffled off.

Financially IVF is challenging. The all-in cost including the drugs was roughly £8,000 – £10,000 per cycle (probably more now), with one cycle free on the NHS.

We did it in our thirties when our careers were ramping up but we weren’t earning a lot just yet. These are years when you should be investing and letting the magic of compounding do its thing, but for three years every spare penny was spent on IVF.

Thank you for sharing. You’re right that IVF is not something that ever gets talked about in FIRE circles. But in the spirit of getting back to the clichés that are, what’s the secret to saving money?

Both when I was paying off the mortgage, and after that when I was properly investing, I invested everything that I didn’t spend. It was for sure over 50% of my pay after tax. My wife also invests regularly.

There’s no great secret to this. If you have a lump of money left over, you simply don’t spend it. If you have debt, it’s used to pay that off first. If you’re not in debt, you put it straight into your ISA, pension or GIA, and forget about it.

Do you have any other hints about spending less?

I don’t sweat the small stuff. I’m paid very well so I shop in Waitrose. If I buy a bottle of wine, it’s going to be something nice. My wife rolls her eyes at my collection of guitars. Is four really too many?

What counted most for us was the big stuff: not driving a clown car, not living in an enormous house, never getting into debt, and making sure every spare pound was invested in low fee, whole market funds.

Do you have any passions or hobbies or vices that eat up your income?

I suppose I’m fortunate that I don’t have expensive hobbies. Did that happen because I’m trying to save or did having inexpensive tastes allow me to become free?

Cooking, preserving, brewing, playing musical instruments, visiting friends, reading books, and going for long walks. They are all fun, healthy, and not expensive.

A favourite walk can be a good step towards financial freedom.

Investing: passive less aggro

What kind of investor are you?

Nowadays I’m passive all the way.

One change that happened in 2024 was getting out of single shares entirely. For a long time I spent pin money buying shares on ‘feels’.

We’re talking £500-£1000 a go, so I suppose I had expensive pins! But never more than a few percent of my net worth.

I sometimes made money. Investing in Shell, Rolls Royce, and Carnival – back when the general opinion was no one would ever fly in a plane or go on a cruise again – wasn’t too bad. And sometimes I lost money – oh hey there Purple Bricks, William Hill, and many more. Never very much money in either direction.

But I had to deal with the bother of corporate actions. Or more to the point, my wife would have to deal with it if I died. So I chose to simplify down to whole market funds and ETFs of the kind she already invests in.

Did you make any big mistakes on your investing journey?

All the usual! Starting my investment journey too late. Not having a pension at all until I was about 30. Dithering in badly-paid jobs at dubious start-up companies early in my career. Not educating myself about money earlier.

What has been your overall return, as best you can tell?

My broker account is saying 40%, and my pension account says I’ve doubled the money I’ve paid in over the years, but the truth is it’s not something I track or think about.

The stock market goes up. The stock market goes down. More up than down recently and I’m expecting that to change soon.

What matters to me is am I FI? Do I have enough to RE? How much will I have to live on in retirement? Is that more than me and my wife are likely to need?

At the moment I believe the answer to all of those is yes – although I wait to hear what the good folk reading Monevator think about it.

How much have you been able to fill your ISA and pension contributions?

We’ve been able to fill both of our ISA allowances every year since 2018. I wasn’t very good about filling my pension allowance in previous years, but since last year I’ve been trying to add £40,000 – the old limit before it was raised – every year.

I could fill the pension to £60,000. But it would involve realising gains in the GIA and doing complicated capital gains tax calculations so I put that in the ‘too hard’ bucket.

To what extent did tax incentives and shelters influence your strategy?

I’ve been cynical about what I call our middle-class benefits system, but that hasn’t stopped me from using it.

What I especially like about ISAs is how they get rid of the tedious, needless complexity of calculating dividend and capital gains taxes.

How often do you check or tweak your portfolio or other investments?

I calculate our net worth every month, and add money every two or three months. But I only review our investment choices annually, and I tweak them even less. The last time I moved any investments between funds was two years ago. I don’t expect to have to do it again, possibly ever.

That said, I am mindful of where I add new money. Recently I’ve been trying to increase our cash allocation, in anticipation of retirement and to weather falls in the stock market.

What would you say to Monevator readers pursuing financial freedom?

The easiest way to accumulate wealth is to not spend any money that you’ve invested, so if that’s a strategy, then I guess it’s our strategy!

This is easy as we don’t have expensive tastes so we really don’t feel the need to spend very much. It’s not as if our combined £40,000 annual spending is in any way frugal.

In the weeds

Can you recommend some favourite resources for anyone chasing the FIRE dream?

I think I was turned on to FIRE by reading the Mr Money Moustache blog. I don’t exactly remember when that was but perhaps around 2012-2014.

There are some posts there which still stand up as classics and resonate with me. I’m thinking about Your Debt is an Emergency and Curing your Clown-Like Car Habit.

As for websites and YouTube, obviously Monevator is going to be top of the list but I also watch James Shack and Meaningful Money.

For books, JL Collins The Simple Path to Wealth is a classic, but I’d like to mention one book that really opened my eyes which is When Money Dies by Adam Fergusson. It’s about hyperinflation in Germany in the 1920s.

What makes it interesting to FIRE readers is who failed and who survived. Those on fixed pensions or annuities and those who kept their savings in cash were all wiped out. Those who saved abroad – the Swiss franc was popular – or invested in companies survived. As did landlords since they could screw over their tenants by increasing the rent. But landlords can come to sticky ends in these kinds of situations.

What will your finances ideally look like towards the end of your life?

We are helping our nieces and nephews, and expect to continue doing this. Lump sums for house deposits are on the cards, assuming the stock market does well enough in future.

I don’t intend to die with zero, as we want to leave a legacy and there are so many of them to split it between.

For the same reason I don’t think an annuity suits our plans. The State Pension will be a kind of annuity if we both manage to live that long.

My thanks to Rich for a very thoughtful interview. When I began these FIRE-side chats, I wondered if they’d quickly get repetitive. I’m much less worried about that now. Every story has its unique chapters, and different interviewees see the path to financial freedom through varied lenses. Please remember that constructive feedback is welcome, but anything bad-tempered or nasty will be deleted. Rich is a regular commentator on Monevator, but because of the particularly personal nature of elements of today’s interview he’s chosen not to reply to comments under his usual guise. Perhaps I’ll try to scare up a reply from him and post it under my own name in a few days.

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